Scandalli Camerano Frassati Cunibertic

[ike milligan]

Have I posted this before? I think I did.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=216331388497611&set=a.162652840532133.34931.100003622549670&type=1&theater

This accordion was not made by machinery using the Scandalli patents.
Every part of the bass mechanism was forged individually looking like
1920's bass design. The reeds were handmade, and the keyboard was all wood.

Who might be the person this was especially made for? is my question.

Scandalli ---- did anyone in that factory in Camerano make accordions
all by hand, as this specimen indicates? Is this the only one?

I just want to know the history behind this. I was using it, but the
bellows broke up. With the 2 mm treble reeds, it could hold its own vs.
any accordion I have played.

The bass did not work fast, the buttons being too high, and was good for
oompah not good for bass melody runs. That might be a result of the way
I rebuilt it though. With only 60 bass, playing in Ab was not practical
using the bass. The outside row doubled as dom 7ths and dim. chords, but
of course, that is not unique.

[ciao_accordion]

hi Ike

well the new information on the physical properties of this
specific instrument is very interesting

there was a period of time when the 60 bass design was
the most common, but once a viable 120 bass hit the scene
i should think the consumer demand would have made the 60
bass obsolete very quickly

there would have been a transition period, and then the next
Art Case style Scandalli's were the Art Deco design plastic
creme and black grille slashes and accents and the other
commonly seen grille with the big Ancona overlook rotunda
(the Passetto monument) and those Scandalli's would date
from around 1929 or 1930 on (when the monument was built)
and all of those i've seen were 120 bass

also interesting on your "Frassati" model that it sported
dual keyboard pivot rods, and i wonder if he was one of the
first to attempt that

at any rate, this is of course from the original Scandalli factory,
and is where the Super VI models were built both as Scandalli and
as the Settimo Artist VI - this is the factory that was "loaned"
to Settimo to use on the night shift so that he could keep his
company alive after the arson destroyed the original Settimo
Soprano factory in Castlefidardo (the new Farfisa factory
was the hub of Scandalli production by then and Camerano was never
modernized, being used for reedmaking and limited, traditional production)

so your Frassati is a wonderful early example of the type of
ability and craft posessed by Scandalli, and an example
of the foundation from which he grew

as far as the FRASSATI CUNIBERTIC part, i have not found anything
more than my original research dug up about the Pastoral religious
connection to the Frassati movement and organization, which
still exists today, and that "Cunibertic" is likely the Family
Name of the man who commissioned this purchase order to Scandalli
and that the Accordion was intended a gift to Papa Cunibertic's SON
when he "graduated" and received his "holy orders" into the
Frassati movement (Accordions being a very big part of Liturgical
life in Italy, especially important to the newer smaller brotherhoods
who did not have elaborate cathedrals and Organs... even Rome needed
many Accordions and a principal reason Dallape survived into the
21st Century was their lucrative decades long "contract" with the Holy See)

considering the times, it may even be reasonable to guess that the
Cunibertic boy's acceptance into the movement and the position he
was given may have been partly a result of the munificent gift of
this Accordion - sort of like a Dowry - and which the more
wealthy families of the times could afford. Cunibertic is a name
associated with a well to do Italian family with Military roots

if you need some small sqared metal corners to rebuild this bellows
i have a bunch of new ones, but i'm no good at doing the
"Pinch" to set the folded leather corners in place

ciao

Ventura

[DoN. Nichols]

Post by ciao_accordion
hi Ike
well the new information on the physical properties of this
specific instrument is very interesting

[ ... ]

Post by ciao_accordion
if you need some small sqared metal corners to rebuild this bellows
i have a bunch of new ones, but i'm no good at doing the
"Pinch" to set the folded leather corners in place

Hmm ... it strikes me that this would require a speical tool,
and my first thoughts would be a set of vise-grips with 90-degree
V-shaped pieces welded or brazed onto the jaw tips to apply the force in
the right way.

Enjoy,
DoN.

[ike milligan]

Post by DoN. Nichols

Post by ciao_accordion
hi Ike
well the new information on the physical properties of this
specific instrument is very interesting

[ ... ]

Post by ciao_accordion
if you need some small sqared metal corners to rebuild this bellows
i have a bunch of new ones, but i'm no good at doing the
"Pinch" to set the folded leather corners in place

Hmm ... it strikes me that this would require a speical tool,
and my first thoughts would be a set of vise-grips with 90-degree
V-shaped pieces welded or brazed onto the jaw tips to apply the force in
the right way.
Enjoy,
DoN.

Don, they sell a bellows corners crimping tool to squeeze them after you
put them on, but I have never owned one. A duck-billed vise grips is the
fanciest thing I have used which can be adjusted to not close all the way.
On this accordion the cardboard has gotten too brittle and needs new
bellows made.

[ike milligan]

Post by ciao_accordion
hi Ike
well the new information on the physical properties of this
specific instrument is very interesting
there was a period of time when the 60 bass design was
the most common, but once a viable 120 bass hit the scene
i should think the consumer demand would have made the 60
bass obsolete very quickly
there would have been a transition period, and then the next
Art Case style Scandalli's were the Art Deco design plastic
creme and black grille slashes and accents and the other
commonly seen grille with the big Ancona overlook rotunda
(the Passetto monument) and those Scandalli's would date
from around 1929 or 1930 on (when the monument was built)
and all of those i've seen were 120 bass
also interesting on your "Frassati" model that it sported
dual keyboard pivot rods, and i wonder if he was one of the
first to attempt that
at any rate, this is of course from the original Scandalli factory,
and is where the Super VI models were built both as Scandalli and
as the Settimo Artist VI - this is the factory that was "loaned"
to Settimo to use on the night shift so that he could keep his
company alive after the arson destroyed the original Settimo
Soprano factory in Castlefidardo (the new Farfisa factory
was the hub of Scandalli production by then and Camerano was never
modernized, being used for reedmaking and limited, traditional production)
so your Frassati is a wonderful early example of the type of
ability and craft posessed by Scandalli, and an example
of the foundation from which he grew
as far as the FRASSATI CUNIBERTIC part, i have not found anything
more than my original research dug up about the Pastoral religious
connection to the Frassati movement and organization, which
still exists today, and that "Cunibertic" is likely the Family
Name of the man who commissioned this purchase order to Scandalli
and that the Accordion was intended a gift to Papa Cunibertic's SON
when he "graduated" and received his "holy orders" into the
Frassati movement (Accordions being a very big part of Liturgical
life in Italy, especially important to the newer smaller brotherhoods
who did not have elaborate cathedrals and Organs... even Rome needed
many Accordions and a principal reason Dallape survived into the
21st Century was their lucrative decades long "contract" with the Holy See)
considering the times, it may even be reasonable to guess that the
Cunibertic boy's acceptance into the movement and the position he
was given may have been partly a result of the munificent gift of
this Accordion - sort of like a Dowry - and which the more
wealthy families of the times could afford. Cunibertic is a name
associated with a well to do Italian family with Military roots
if you need some small sqared metal corners to rebuild this bellows
i have a bunch of new ones, but i'm no good at doing the
"Pinch" to set the folded leather corners in place
ciao
Ventura

Well, Phillip are you assuming that the "Cunibertic" young man received
this as a special gift, or you have actual information? I do know that
Cuniberti was a family name in the Piedmont...
More recently I googled in Italian lingo and found a Tyrolean chorus
name Frassati Cunibertic.
As for rebuilding the bellows, I already re-taped them before the
cardboard started splitting up.
The strap hardware on it had been changed, and some of the reeds had
been been worked on, and I had to relocate the strap brackets as the
straps were cutting into my chin.
Next thing is get new bellows made to specs.

[ciao_accordion]

Post by ike milligan
actual information? I do know that
Cuniberti was a family name in the Piedmont...
More recently I googled in Italian lingo and found a Tyrolean chorus
name Frassati Cunibertic.

then you have the first hint of an actual connection between
"Frassati" and "Cunibertic"

because that is the problem

yes we can find Frassati, and it makes sense - time period etc.
no other real references in history around then for that word
except for the religious youth movement and their "Saint"

yes we can find Cunibertic, yes in the Piedmont, so yes to a
POSSIBLE geographic link between "Frassati" and "Cunibertic"

(and now that you have this clue to the Tyrol region, i know
what 2 songs i'll play on it for you when it's up and running again)

but no, nowhere could I find an actual concrete connection between
"Frassati" and "Cunibertic" - so i tried to place myself in the
times and habits of the people in Italy back then and imagine
some plausible way they could be linked

(i mean other than the front of that accordion, which is the
only real proof thjey had any connection whatsoever)

We know how Europe and Italy existed in part, and the way
life was handed down being a principle factor - the first Son
became his "Father" learning his position in Society, his trade,
assuming it at some point, inhabiting his Fathers house, passing it
on to HIS first-born son someday etc. etc. ad infinitum

second sons and beyond had it very different - they went to Sea
(or perhaps this Cunibertic boy's Grandfather - understanding
his young Grandson was maybe a little gay and wanted to dance
through life wearing Robes and Sandals and playing his Accordion
for the Lord, figured out a way to "secure" him a position that
at least would keep him fed and sheltered with a respectable organization)

i mean seeing there are no actual references in History findable
that anyone in the house of Cunibertic played ANY instrument famously
much less this modern Accordion thing that was becoming all the rage

how CAN we possibly link the two? it existed - that we know - but
why - how - ???

anyhow i like my fiction... (in my mind he was fair, thin, curly hair,
the apple of his Mothers eye and a mild embarrasment to his Father)

ciao

Ventura

[ike milligan]

Post by ciao_accordion

Post by ike milligan
actual information? I do know that
Cuniberti was a family name in the Piedmont...
More recently I googled in Italian lingo and found a Tyrolean chorus
name Frassati Cunibertic.

then you have the first hint of an actual connection between
"Frassati" and "Cunibertic"
because that is the problem
yes we can find Frassati, and it makes sense - time period etc.
no other real references in history around then for that word
except for the religious youth movement and their "Saint"
yes we can find Cunibertic, yes in the Piedmont, so yes to a
POSSIBLE geographic link between "Frassati" and "Cunibertic"
(and now that you have this clue to the Tyrol region, i know
what 2 songs i'll play on it for you when it's up and running again)
but no, nowhere could I find an actual concrete connection between
"Frassati" and "Cunibertic" - so i tried to place myself in the
times and habits of the people in Italy back then and imagine
some plausible way they could be linked
(i mean other than the front of that accordion, which is the
only real proof thjey had any connection whatsoever)
We know how Europe and Italy existed in part, and the way
life was handed down being a principle factor - the first Son
became his "Father" learning his position in Society, his trade,
assuming it at some point, inhabiting his Fathers house, passing it
on to HIS first-born son someday etc. etc. ad infinitum
second sons and beyond had it very different - they went to Sea
(or perhaps this Cunibertic boy's Grandfather - understanding
his young Grandson was maybe a little gay and wanted to dance
through life wearing Robes and Sandals and playing his Accordion
for the Lord, figured out a way to "secure" him a position that
at least would keep him fed and sheltered with a respectable organization)
i mean seeing there are no actual references in History findable
that anyone in the house of Cunibertic played ANY instrument famously
much less this modern Accordion thing that was becoming all the rage
how CAN we possibly link the two? it existed - that we know - but
why - how - ???
anyhow i like my fiction... (in my mind he was fair, thin, curly hair,
the apple of his Mothers eye and a mild embarrasment to his Father)
ciao
Ventura

Unable to find the web page again of Frassati Cunibertic.

Strange flights of fancy you have known, eh?

[ciao_accordion]

Post by ike milligan
Unable to find the web page again of Frassati Cunibertic.

yeah i know... after i read your post i surfed to google italy
and searched every which way i could think of but couldn't
find the thread you spotted

didn't really find anything new on either, separately, except
modern exploits of the family (they have a Sax player now)

doesn't help our sleuthing though

tried to find some other factory locales in Camerano of old where
he might have apprenticed, but nothing in the right timeline.
it seems more likely his own family introduced him to instrument
making as apparently they were doing stuff, but couldn't really
figure out what specifically just that they were involved

also seems to rule out any Cunibertic involvement before or since
with accordions or makers of them - searched several records of
listings of brand names trade names principle backers factory
masters famous tuners - zip - nada - nothing

sure it's not unusual to get "your name in lights" for the
right price, though usually it's easy to tell as you noted in
a different thread when the name on the front is the musician,
but the names are carefully integrated in the design and artistry
of your box, so it isn't so clear cut - still for built-to-order
one of a kind the rules don't totally apply

[ike milligan]

Post by ciao_accordion

Post by ike milligan
Unable to find the web page again of Frassati Cunibertic.

yeah i know... after i read your post i surfed to google italy
and searched every which way i could think of but couldn't
find the thread you spotted
didn't really find anything new on either, separately, except
modern exploits of the family (they have a Sax player now)
doesn't help our sleuthing though
tried to find some other factory locales in Camerano of old where
he might have apprenticed, but nothing in the right timeline.
it seems more likely his own family introduced him to instrument
making as apparently they were doing stuff, but couldn't really
figure out what specifically just that they were involved
also seems to rule out any Cunibertic involvement before or since
with accordions or makers of them - searched several records of
listings of brand names trade names principle backers factory
masters famous tuners - zip - nada - nothing
sure it's not unusual to get "your name in lights" for the
right price, though usually it's easy to tell as you noted in
a different thread when the name on the front is the musician,
but the names are carefully integrated in the design and artistry
of your box, so it isn't so clear cut - still for built-to-order
one of a kind the rules don't totally apply

Where who might have apprenticed?

This is not the first time a Google search disappeared. Plus I am
getting a lot of links to this discussion, or the previous one. Whether
or not I search in Italian. Maybe Google has changed its algorithms, and
they are weird now.

I found an interesting page a couple months ago in Italian using
Frassati Cuniberti fisarmonica, which Google said was too long to
translate. There are a lot of pages containing fisarmonica and
Cuniberti, but maybe a Via Cuniberti, or an ensemble with an accordion
player and a sax player named Cuniberti.

I assumed that I could get anything that turned up in Google a second
time by just using the same search terms again, but no dice. The
webmaster could have changed the robots.txt, but why?

Maybe I imagined it all...

[ike milligan]

Post by ciao_accordion

Post by ike milligan
actual information? I do know that
Cuniberti was a family name in the Piedmont...
More recently I googled in Italian lingo and found a Tyrolean chorus
name Frassati Cunibertic.

then you have the first hint of an actual connection between
"Frassati" and "Cunibertic"
because that is the problem
yes we can find Frassati, and it makes sense - time period etc.
no other real references in history around then for that word
except for the religious youth movement and their "Saint"
yes we can find Cunibertic, yes in the Piedmont, so yes to a
POSSIBLE geographic link between "Frassati" and "Cunibertic"
(and now that you have this clue to the Tyrol region, i know
what 2 songs i'll play on it for you when it's up and running again)
but no, nowhere could I find an actual concrete connection between
"Frassati" and "Cunibertic" - so i tried to place myself in the
times and habits of the people in Italy back then and imagine
some plausible way they could be linked
(i mean other than the front of that accordion, which is the
only real proof thjey had any connection whatsoever)
We know how Europe and Italy existed in part, and the way
life was handed down being a principle factor - the first Son
became his "Father" learning his position in Society, his trade,
assuming it at some point, inhabiting his Fathers house, passing it
on to HIS first-born son someday etc. etc. ad infinitum
second sons and beyond had it very different - they went to Sea
(or perhaps this Cunibertic boy's Grandfather - understanding
his young Grandson was maybe a little gay and wanted to dance
through life wearing Robes and Sandals and playing his Accordion
for the Lord, figured out a way to "secure" him a position that
at least would keep him fed and sheltered with a respectable organization)
i mean seeing there are no actual references in History findable
that anyone in the house of Cunibertic played ANY instrument famously
much less this modern Accordion thing that was becoming all the rage
how CAN we possibly link the two? it existed - that we know - but
why - how - ???
anyhow i like my fiction... (in my mind he was fair, thin, curly hair,
the apple of his Mothers eye and a mild embarrasment to his Father)
ciao
Ventura

THE ROOSTER
2017, 2005, 1993, 1981, 1969, 1957, 1945

Direct, talented and capable, roosters are deep thinkers. They are best
described as eccentric with strange flights of fancy.

[ciao_accordion]

Post by ike milligan
Scandalli ---- did anyone in that factory in Camerano make accordions
all by hand, as this specimen indicates? Is this the only one?

actually, i think it is reasonable to assume that this accordion
probably was in Scandalli's hands, personally, if not the building
of all parts of it, certainly in part, and certainly in the final
finishing touches, and i wouldn't be suprised if he personally
delivered it to his Friend/patron/Customer

it is undeniably a special accordion

[ciao_accordion]

Post by ike milligan
I just want to know the history behind this.

thinking it through a bit more and considering the times
and practices, this specific accordion may have been
prior to the actual establishment of the "Factory"
and him actually entering the Market with a concrete
offering of product(s)

certainly, he had to "apprentice" somewhere in some ways,
and the definition of "Factory" was quite a loose
term at the time (meaning, as it did for example with
Galanti prior to 1917, "the living room of our house"
more or less... when the Frasatti was built he may
still have been in his teens, and spending his nights
working overtime on his own projects at someone elses workplace.

true - he had a long life - a friend of mine who competed
in a major Accordion competiton as a teenager so impressed
him with her performance and demeanor, he invited her
and the Russian delegation to the Factory, during which he
suprised her with the GIFT of a Super VI - from his hands to hers...
which then returned with her behind the Iron Curtain.
(many many years later she emigrated to the USA with her
Scandalli in tow and still plays the living daylights out
of it to this day... it is certainly one of the nicest i
have ever heard or played... has threaded inserts and fine screws
instead of Bellows pins... everything about her accordion seems
perfectly fitted and finished)

She's a really nice girl too, and the boost of confidence his
gesture of support... his belief in her future as as accordionist...
gave her is still evident in the way she beams when playing her
Scandalli and speaking of her friend from Italy.

the guy was a true Rennaisance Man in many ways, and the name
STILL has magic today even after 40 years of being torn and
abused by profiteers... hell there's a "fake Scandalli"
cordovox on EBay right now that is being hocked with a
wild story to associate it with Scandalli and Super VI, the
crook even hoisted a Scandalli nameplate off an old junker
and glued it onto this piece-of-crap cordovox as part of
his pack of lies

thankfully there's still people who actually care about
these great old accordions and their makers, and i
really appreciate that you have spent so much time
restoring this cool old box

ciao

Ventura

[ike milligan]

Post by ciao_accordion

Post by ike milligan
I just want to know the history behind this.

thinking it through a bit more and considering the times
and practices, this specific accordion may have been
prior to the actual establishment of the "Factory"
and him actually entering the Market with a concrete
offering of product(s)
certainly, he had to "apprentice" somewhere in some ways,
and the definition of "Factory" was quite a loose
term at the time (meaning, as it did for example with
Galanti prior to 1917, "the living room of our house"
more or less... when the Frasatti was built he may
still have been in his teens, and spending his nights
working overtime on his own projects at someone elses workplace.
true - he had a long life - a friend of mine who competed
in a major Accordion competiton as a teenager so impressed
him with her performance and demeanor, he invited her
and the Russian delegation to the Factory, during which he
suprised her with the GIFT of a Super VI - from his hands to hers...
which then returned with her behind the Iron Curtain.
(many many years later she emigrated to the USA with her
Scandalli in tow and still plays the living daylights out
of it to this day... it is certainly one of the nicest i
have ever heard or played... has threaded inserts and fine screws
instead of Bellows pins... everything about her accordion seems
perfectly fitted and finished)
She's a really nice girl too, and the boost of confidence his
gesture of support... his belief in her future as as accordionist...
gave her is still evident in the way she beams when playing her
Scandalli and speaking of her friend from Italy.
the guy was a true Rennaisance Man in many ways, and the name
STILL has magic today even after 40 years of being torn and
abused by profiteers... hell there's a "fake Scandalli"
cordovox on EBay right now that is being hocked with a
wild story to associate it with Scandalli and Super VI, the
crook even hoisted a Scandalli nameplate off an old junker
and glued it onto this piece-of-crap cordovox as part of
his pack of lies
thankfully there's still people who actually care about
these great old accordions and their makers, and i
really appreciate that you have spent so much time
restoring this cool old box
ciao
Ventura

Very interesting! I was thinking also it might even pre-date the the
"Brevetto Scandalli" stamped metal mechanisms, and surely was built by a
master piece-by-piece, which I can attest to.
The fact that it was not made to be adjusted, the valve blocks were
glued on a piece of alum-tanned leather onto the rods, and the bass
could not be adjusted by bending, since the levers were hard steel,
indicates to me that whoever built it had a very precise style.
Not a factory-tested design for the unwashed masses.