"Sticky" concertina bellows

[Rob Lindauer]

The folds of the bellows of my concertina are a bit "sticky" in places,
so that when I pull them open, the folds stick briefly together and then
pop apart. It's worse when I first open up the instrument - but even
after I've started playing, the folds still stick. The bellows are
pretty noisy as a result.

I've put nothing (wax, cleaner, saddle soap, ...) on the bellows. I've
tried wiping them with a dry cloth, but nothing comes off, and it
doesn't seem to make a difference.

The problem seems more pronounced now in the humid summer, but it occurs
yearround.

The instrument is a Wheatstone English treble #36997, dating I believe
from about 1960. I've owned it ~7 years but haven't played it much (I'm
really a fiddler). The bellows are plain black leather, showing just a
bit of wear on the "player's belly" edge. The bellows are not sticky
everywhere - and even the sticky spots aren't all that sticky. I have
no idea what the stickiness is.

Any ideas what I can do to eliminate the stickiness? Is there a safe
way to clean the sticky areas (i.e., one that won't leave me with a
worse problem)? Could I put something absorbent or lubricating (a piece
of paper? talc? cornstarch? Lord knows...) in the folds when I put the
instrument away? Should I just leave it alone? Should I haul it back
to the Button Box for a diagnosis?

Thanks!

[Ike]

The folds of the bellows of my concertina are a bit "sticky" in places, so
that when I pull them open, the folds stick briefly together and then pop
apart. It's worse when I first open up the instrument - but even after
I've started playing, the folds still stick. The bellows are pretty noisy
as a result.
I've put nothing (wax, cleaner, saddle soap, ...) on the bellows. I've
tried wiping them with a dry cloth, but nothing comes off, and it doesn't
seem to make a difference.
The problem seems more pronounced now in the humid summer, but it occurs
yearround.
The instrument is a Wheatstone English treble #36997, dating I believe
from about 1960. I've owned it ~7 years but haven't played it much (I'm
really a fiddler). The bellows are plain black leather, showing just a
bit of wear on the "player's belly" edge. The bellows are not sticky
everywhere - and even the sticky spots aren't all that sticky. I have no
idea what the stickiness is.
Any ideas what I can do to eliminate the stickiness? Is there a safe way
to clean the sticky areas (i.e., one that won't leave me with a worse
problem)? Could I put something absorbent or lubricating (a piece of
paper? talc? cornstarch? Lord knows...) in the folds when I put the
instrument away? Should I just leave it alone? Should I haul it back to
the Button Box for a diagnosis?
Thanks!
--
Rob Lindauer - Please change "att" to "sbc" for my real email address

Not claiming to be the final authority, but paraphrasing Deiro "Repairng
Your Accordion" from c. 1930, you would rub the bellows vigorously with a
damp cloth on the leatherette part, meaning the tape, to clean off whatever
is on them, not getting anything on the cloth part, and then when absolutely
dry, put a little talcum powder or "very slightest bit" of oil on them, ( I
think olive oil should be safe) He admonishes not to get anything on the
cloth part. If you bellows are leather, more care should be taken when
cleaning, maybe a drop of Murphy's oil soap mixed with some water and just
dampened on a cloth. Or saddle soap.

[DoN. Nichols]

Post by Ike

The folds of the bellows of my concertina are a bit "sticky" in places, so
that when I pull them open, the folds stick briefly together and then pop
apart. It's worse when I first open up the instrument - but even after
I've started playing, the folds still stick. The bellows are pretty noisy
as a result.

Hmm ... I've had that problem, with a really old Wheatstone,
which had been converted to steel reeds at a later date (the depth of
the reed chambers is says that it was originally designed for brass
reeds), and the rosewood ends had been dyed black. The bellows folds
were coated with something which behaved somewhat like tar, to turn them
from green to black.

Over time and use, things settled down without any aggressive
treatments.

Post by Ike

I've put nothing (wax, cleaner, saddle soap, ...) on the bellows. I've
tried wiping them with a dry cloth, but nothing comes off, and it doesn't
seem to make a difference.
The problem seems more pronounced now in the humid summer, but it occurs
yearround.
The instrument is a Wheatstone English treble #36997, dating I believe
from about 1960. I've owned it ~7 years but haven't played it much (I'm
really a fiddler). The bellows are plain black leather, showing just a
bit of wear on the "player's belly" edge. The bellows are not sticky
everywhere - and even the sticky spots aren't all that sticky. I have no
idea what the stickiness is.

At that age of instrument, I would suggest sending an email to
Steve Dickinson at Wheatstone to ask what he thinks might be the
problem.

Post by Ike

Any ideas what I can do to eliminate the stickiness? Is there a safe way
to clean the sticky areas (i.e., one that won't leave me with a worse
problem)? Could I put something absorbent or lubricating (a piece of
paper? talc? cornstarch? Lord knows...) in the folds when I put the
instrument away? Should I just leave it alone? Should I haul it back to
the Button Box for a diagnosis?
Thanks!
--
Rob Lindauer - Please change "att" to "sbc" for my real email address

Not claiming to be the final authority, but paraphrasing Deiro "Repairng
Your Accordion" from c. 1930, you would rub the bellows vigorously with a
damp cloth on the leatherette part, meaning the tape, to clean off whatever
is on them, not getting anything on the cloth part, and then when absolutely
dry, put a little talcum powder or "very slightest bit" of oil on them, ( I
think olive oil should be safe) He admonishes not to get anything on the
cloth part. If you bellows are leather, more care should be taken when
cleaning, maybe a drop of Murphy's oil soap mixed with some water and just
dampened on a cloth. Or saddle soap.

Well ... "leather" is an approximate term, I fear. Wheatstone
concertina bellows are complex composites, varying somewhat with date of
manufacture. I've never had a chance to examine one this new, so I
don't know what to expect here.

But the typical construction of a concertina bellows of English
construction is (in approximate order of assembly, I believe):

1) Trapezoidal pieces of "posterboard" to form each individual
panel.

2) Butterfly-shaped hinges on the inside and outside to join the
panels near the center of the instrument. The inside ones have
sometimes been a cloth tape such as is used for book hinge
repair. The outer ones are usually a thin leather.

The cloth tape hinges are also used for the inside hinges of the
outer folds.

3) Diamond-shaped patches of very soft leather with folds to fill
the corners, to allow the shape of the corner areas to expand
and contract with the bellows extension and compression.

4) Trapezoidal panels to cover the majority of the exposed
posterboard on the outside. Sometimes (with early instruments)
they were cut from a common wallpaper pattern of the time.
Later, special print runs were made of decorative patterns
adjusted to the shape of the panels.

Later ones were sometimes a very thin leather. (Morrocan
leather, I believe).

5) Finally, the "tape", which is also the same thin leather used
elsewhere (except in the expanding corner patches). This is cut
in a continuous strip to wrap around the outside of the entire
bellows edge.


6) Wherever any of these layers overlap, the edges are skived to
make a smooth transition.


So -- anything you use on it should not harm:

The thin leather
The cardboard panels
The Cloth hinge material
The soft leather corner patches.
And -- the glues used to join all of these.

I believe that "rabbit glue" is what was commonly used, so check
your treatments on a sample of that.

Yes -- I know that accordion bellows are made by pleating a long
strip of cardboard to form each side of the bellows, and those folds
tend to fail from flexure over time. The separate composite hinge
materials of English construction bellows is why a bellows can normally
be expected to be in excellent shape (given care*) even with over a
century of age. I believe that accordion bellows will have been
replaced several times over a similar period of continuous use.

*) "given care" includes avoiding letting the edges of the folds
rub on the player's body, including dragging the bellows on the
player's knees.

Squeeze On,
DoN.

[Richard Morse]

Post by Ike
Not claiming to be the final authority, but paraphrasing Deiro "Repairng
Your Accordion" from c. 1930, you would rub the bellows vigorously with
a damp cloth on the leatherette part, meaning the tape, to clean off
whatever is on them, not getting anything on the cloth part, and then
when absolutely dry, put a little talcum powder or "very slightest bit"
of oil on them, ( I think olive oil should be safe) He admonishes not to
get anything on the cloth part. If you bellows are leather, more care
should be taken when cleaning, maybe a drop of Murphy's oil soap mixed
with some water and just dampened on a cloth. Or saddle soap.

Yikes! Concertina bellows and accordion bellows are constructed quite
differently with very different materials. I hope no one ever does
something like this to a concertina bellows!

-- Rich --

[Ike]

Post by Richard Morse

Post by Ike
Not claiming to be the final authority, but paraphrasing Deiro "Repairng
Your Accordion" from c. 1930, you would rub the bellows vigorously with a
damp cloth on the leatherette part, meaning the tape, to clean off
whatever is on them, not getting anything on the cloth part, and then
when absolutely dry, put a little talcum powder or "very slightest bit"
of oil on them, ( I think olive oil should be safe) He admonishes not to
get anything on the cloth part. If you bellows are leather, more care
should be taken when cleaning, maybe a drop of Murphy's oil soap mixed
with some water and just dampened on a cloth. Or saddle soap.

Yikes! Concertina bellows and accordion bellows are constructed quite
differently with very different materials. I hope no one ever does
something like this to a concertina bellows!
-- Rich --

I wrote that but you are probably right.

[johann pascher]

Hi, Ike an Richard!

Would be nice to hear how concertina bellows are treated, yes I did red
all posts and I red all with interest!

and then when absolutely dry, put a little talcum powder

I use a little bit of baby powder ( Wienerweis) may be it is the same as
talcum powder don’t know.

The powder is applied after the folds are glued and all is finished.
It is applied with a little hair brush as uses for aqua painting.
Inside and outside of the folds. The loose dust is the blown off with
the compressed air.
This reduces the noise when the bellows is opened and closed especial if
the are new.
This is also common practise with bellows and moving parts (valves, and
an mini bellows) in acoustic organs.

Johann

Post by Richard Morse

Post by Ike
Not claiming to be the final authority, but paraphrasing Deiro

"Repairng

Post by Richard Morse

Post by Ike
Your Accordion" from c. 1930, you would rub the bellows vigorously

with a

Post by Richard Morse

Post by Ike
damp cloth on the leatherette part, meaning the tape, to clean off
whatever is on them, not getting anything on the cloth part, and then
when absolutely dry, put a little talcum powder or "very slightest bit"
of oil on them, ( I think olive oil should be safe) He admonishes

not to

Post by Richard Morse

Post by Ike
get anything on the cloth part. If you bellows are leather, more care
should be taken when cleaning, maybe a drop of Murphy's oil soap mixed
with some water and just dampened on a cloth. Or saddle soap.

Yikes! Concertina bellows and accordion bellows are constructed quite
differently with very different materials. I hope no one ever does
something like this to a concertina bellows!
-- Rich --

I wrote that but you are probably right.
--
www.1accordion.net
Ike Milligan
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[Richard Morse]

Post by Rob Lindauer
The folds of the bellows of my concertina are a bit "sticky" in places,
The problem seems more pronounced now in the humid summer, but it occurs
yearround.
The instrument is a Wheatstone English treble #36997, dating I believe
from about 1960.

It sounds like someone had put a paste wax on it at some time. Some
types of that sort of wax of compound really never "dries" and will get
tackier with humidity. *IF* that is the case, we (the Button Box) would
use a softly textured cloth (the purl side of cotton jersey) slightly
dampened with diluted "CitrusSolve". Each area pass would be with a
clean part of the cloth (no rubbing!) and OFF the joints (not into or
along the seams).

The CitrusSolve won't hurt any of those materials or soak into them at
that concentration, and it won't dissolve any glues typically used to
make bellows.

Bellows of that age shouldn't be needing any finishing compound on it,
though if it is really thirsty you might follow that up with a very
light application of a special leather conditioner (I forget what
type/brand we use at the shop). You could give them a call, or better
yet, if you're close, stop by and they'll tell you just what to do - and
depending on what else we've got doing at the time and the extent of
your bellows degradation - possibly fix it for you right then!


-- Rich --

[Rob Lindauer]

Thanks, all, for the info.

I think it makes most sense to haul the instrument to Button Box for a
look, so I'll do so fairly soon.

Regards, RL

Post by Richard Morse
It sounds like someone had put a paste wax on it at some time. Some
types of that sort of wax of compound really never "dries" and will get
tackier with humidity. *IF* that is the case, we (the Button Box) would
use a softly textured cloth (the purl side of cotton jersey) slightly
dampened with diluted "CitrusSolve". Each area pass would be with a
clean part of the cloth (no rubbing!) and OFF the joints (not into or
along the seams).
The CitrusSolve won't hurt any of those materials or soak into them at
that concentration, and it won't dissolve any glues typically used to
make bellows.
Bellows of that age shouldn't be needing any finishing compound on it,
though if it is really thirsty you might follow that up with a very
light application of a special leather conditioner (I forget what
type/brand we use at the shop). You could give them a call, or better
yet, if you're close, stop by and they'll tell you just what to do - and
depending on what else we've got doing at the time and the extent of
your bellows degradation - possibly fix it for you right then!
-- Rich --