tutorial for chromatic accordion

Post by Mike Mason
Does anyone know of a tutorial for the chromatic accordion (in my case, a C
keyboard). I have Elsbeth's Moser's book, but it's a little abstract for me
as my only guide. In the book I'd like to find, it would have a couple of
"e-z to play" tunes every couple of pages so I can feel like I'm making
progress.
I live in the USA and am having trouble ordering from the UK, the one shop I
found with a different book wanted a "verified" credit card, whatever that
is, so a USA source would be appreciated.
mike

verified may have to do with a paypal account. its an ebay thing. its easy
enough.

Mike Mason

2004-10-23 23:44:02 UTC

Hi Allen,
Thanks, I'm familiar with Paypal, but my ordering attempt was strictly
through a credit card, like I use to pay my amazon.com and amazon.de
(Germany) invoices, and never a problem with my c-card.

The issue was a particular requirement for that store.

mdm
----------------

Post by allen watsky

Post by Mike Mason
Does anyone know of a tutorial for the chromatic accordion (in my case,

Post by allen watsky
C

Post by Mike Mason
keyboard). I have Elsbeth's Moser's book, but it's a little abstract for

Post by Mike Mason
as my only guide. In the book I'd like to find, it would have a couple of
"e-z to play" tunes every couple of pages so I can feel like I'm making
progress.
I live in the USA and am having trouble ordering from the UK, the one

shop

Post by allen watsky
I

Post by Mike Mason
found with a different book wanted a "verified" credit card, whatever that
is, so a USA source would be appreciated.
mike

verified may have to do with a paypal account. its an ebay thing. its easy
enough.

Len Killick

2004-10-22 06:55:05 UTC

There's a french book called L'Accodeon Boutons Par l'image - part of a
series for all accordeon instruments.
Although the text is in French, as it's title says it is very much "by
pictures", the only small complication I find in it is the need to
translate C, D, E, F, G ... into Do, Re, Mi, Fa, So. This book does fit
your other requirements as it starts very easy and has short pieces every
few pages to exercise the new features learnt. Published by Paul Beuscher
in Paris. Retails here in Germany for Euro 12. If you are interested and
can't find it elsewhere contact me off list for details, we don't have
problems with (most) credit cards!

Len

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Mike Mason

2004-10-23 23:50:48 UTC

Hi Len,
Ok thanks for the tip. I'll save your message. I hope there is still
something in english or german, but maybe your suggestion is the best. Do
you work for a store, do they have a website?

However, how can it be that chromatics are the dominant keyboard still in
Europe, but there are hardly any tutorial books for it?? One would think
that in Germany or Scandanavia there would be a vast choice??

I wonder....

mike

Post by Len Killick
There's a french book called L'Accodeon Boutons Par l'image - part of a
series for all accordeon instruments.
Although the text is in French, as it's title says it is very much "by
pictures", the only small complication I find in it is the need to
translate C, D, E, F, G ... into Do, Re, Mi, Fa, So. This book does fit
your other requirements as it starts very easy and has short pieces every
few pages to exercise the new features learnt. Published by Paul Beuscher
in Paris. Retails here in Germany for Euro 12. If you are interested and
can't find it elsewhere contact me off list for details, we don't have
problems with (most) credit cards!
Len

Len Killick

2004-10-26 15:25:06 UTC

Hello Mike,

Well I don't think chromatics are the dominant keyboard in Europe, France
maybe, but even there doubtful?

There are plenty of tutorial books in Germany, but there are two problems:
- most are old and not really very good quality (not what I'd call a
useful tutor in the modern style, like we have now for piano accordeon and
diatonics to a lesser extent).
- there is more B-keyboard material in Germany and the east-europe
countries that C-keyboard.

I have a small business of my own you can find me at
http://www.akkordeonservice.de/

Len

Post by Mike Mason
Hi Len,
Ok thanks for the tip. I'll save your message. I hope there is still
something in english or german, but maybe your suggestion is the best. Do
you work for a store, do they have a website?
However, how can it be that chromatics are the dominant keyboard still in
Europe, but there are hardly any tutorial books for it?? One would think
that in Germany or Scandanavia there would be a vast choice??
I wonder....
mike

Post by Mike Mason
Does anyone know of a tutorial for the chromatic accordion (in my

case,

Post by Mike Mason
a C
keyboard). I have Elsbeth's Moser's book, but it's a little abstract

for

Post by Mike Mason
me
as my only guide. In the book I'd like to find, it would have a couple

Post by Mike Mason
"e-z to play" tunes every couple of pages so I can feel like I'm

making

Post by Mike Mason
progress.
I live in the USA and am having trouble ordering from the UK, the one shop I
found with a different book wanted a "verified" credit card, whatever that
is, so a USA source would be appreciated.
mike

------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Mike Mason

2004-10-24 00:53:48 UTC

Len,
It just occurred to me to ask you, as you seem to live in Germany, right???

There is a tutor called: "Anzaghi Complete Method for Piano and & 5 row 'C'
system". Is that something you could get your hands on??
mike

=================

Mumaharps

2004-10-26 14:45:53 UTC

I have ordered "Anzaghi Complete Method for Piano and & 5 row 'C'system".
from Allodi Accordions in England. http://www.accordions.co.uk/Index.htm
I purchased with credit card with no problem. I'm still waiting for
arrival here in Canada.

Roger

Len Killick

2004-10-26 15:25:13 UTC

I know of the book and it's publisher, not sure if it's stocked at their
German distribution - I'll check.

Len

Post by Mike Mason
Len,
It just occurred to me to ask you, as you seem to live in Germany, right???
There is a tutor called: "Anzaghi Complete Method for Piano and & 5 row 'C'
system". Is that something you could get your hands on??
mike
=================

Post by Mike Mason
Does anyone know of a tutorial for the chromatic accordion (in my

case,

Post by Mike Mason
a C
keyboard). I have Elsbeth's Moser's book, but it's a little abstract

for

Post by Mike Mason
me
as my only guide. In the book I'd like to find, it would have a couple

Post by Mike Mason
"e-z to play" tunes every couple of pages so I can feel like I'm

making

------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Mike Mason

2004-10-31 22:36:24 UTC

Post by Len Killick
I know of the book and it's publisher, not sure if it's stocked at their
German distribution - I'll check.
Len

Thanks Len, but I changed my mind about CBA. Even after working two weeks on
the chromatic keyboard, I could still play quicker a tune on a piano
keyboard layout (and I have not played PA before!). I guess my mind over the
years has absorbed how to change fingering on a piano keyboard and I no
longer see any strong advantage for me to start over to learn a button
approach.

You mentioned earlier that CBA is not the dominant keyboard in Europe. I
wish I could remember where I heard the claim that CBA was the Western
European accordion, but at any rate, such a claim is apparently out of date,
so I do not feel like I am missing something by sticking with the PA. Plus I
couldn't never find a CBA teacher in the States.

mdm

Len Killick

2004-11-01 04:55:05 UTC

Not a bad decision Mike; for most people I propose that if they already
have any idea at all what a piano keyboard is the PA is preferable over
the CBA. If they don't know anything about either of them AND have plenty
of time and enthusiam for the inital learning the CBA can offer
advantages later: particularly in transposing and speed of playing (with
limited wrist and arm strain!). If they don't know anything about anything
I point them to the diatonics not because they are the idiots instrument
(almost the official German accordeon club opinion) but because they are
easier to start with and offer a lifetime of discovery.

Post by Len Killick
I know of the book and it's publisher, not sure if it's stocked at their
German distribution - I'll check.
Len

Thanks Len, but I changed my mind about CBA. Even after working two weeks on
the chromatic keyboard, I could still play quicker a tune on a piano
keyboard layout (and I have not played PA before!). I guess my mind over the
years has absorbed how to change fingering on a piano keyboard and I no
longer see any strong advantage for me to start over to learn a button
approach.
You mentioned earlier that CBA is not the dominant keyboard in Europe. I
wish I could remember where I heard the claim that CBA was the Western
European accordion, but at any rate, such a claim is apparently out of date,
so I do not feel like I am missing something by sticking with the PA. Plus I
couldn't never find a CBA teacher in the States.
mdm
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antonista

2004-10-26 16:45:56 UTC

Mike:

I also am looking for some tutorials on the c griff chromatic. I also
found moser's book to be a bit much. mostly because my german is not
that great. If you come across any books in english, please let me
know!

Thanks,
Dave

J. Coon

2004-10-27 00:25:05 UTC

Post by antonista
I also am looking for some tutorials on the c griff chromatic. I also
found moser's book to be a bit much. mostly because my german is not
that great. If you come across any books in english, please let me
know!
Thanks,
Dave

I think there is more of a problem than just the German. I have the
book, and it doesn't really help a lot, just a lot of theory.

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News

2004-10-27 14:58:51 UTC

Hi,

A really good source for accordion music and books is Trevani, in the UK,
but they do not deal with cards

Email: ***@trevani.co.uk to get their comprehensive catalogue. They also
are good for advice

Dave

Mike Mason

2004-10-31 22:18:58 UTC

I think there is more of a problem than just the German. I have the
book, and it doesn't really help a lot, just a lot of theory.

Yes, your German has to be decent, but especially you have to get straight
in your mind the entirely different names they have for the intervals. After
working on the book for awhile, I started to grasp what Moser was aiming
for. IMHO, she is teaching entirely a playing approach based on
ntervals -- that could be excellent for improvisation and for jazz. And of
course, your transposition skill would approach the instantaneous.
mdm

chromaticdg

2004-10-31 23:25:12 UTC

Hi.. I was told at the Accordion Convention in Las Vegas in June
that there are NO tutorials in English for the chromatic. I am a
new player and am having to work my way through alone, especially
since where I am (Barbados) I'm the only person in these parts with
a squuzebox! The only site on the www that has something about
chromatics that I've found is http://www.thecipher.com/chromatic-
accordion-cipher.html - take a look and see if it helps.

Post by antonista
I also am looking for some tutorials on the c griff chromatic.

I also

Post by antonista
found moser's book to be a bit much. mostly because my german

is not

Post by antonista
that great. If you come across any books in english, please

let me

Post by antonista
know!
Thanks,
Dave

I think there is more of a problem than just the German. I have

the

Post by J. Coon
book, and it doesn't really help a lot, just a lot of theory.

Yes, your German has to be decent, but especially you have to get

straight

Post by Mike Mason
in your mind the entirely different names they have for the

intervals. After

Post by Mike Mason
working on the book for awhile, I started to grasp what Moser was

aiming

Post by Mike Mason
for. IMHO, she is teaching entirely a playing approach based on
ntervals -- that could be excellent for improvisation and for

jazz. And of

Post by Mike Mason
course, your transposition skill would approach the instantaneous.
mdm
-------------------------------------------------------------------

-----

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Hugh O'Rourke

2004-10-31 23:55:05 UTC

Too bad we did not get together. I was on St. Lucia from January to May
with a two row diatonic.

Hugh O'R
----- Original Message -----
From: "chromaticdg" <***@caribsurf.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2004 5:48 PM
Subject: SML: Re: tutorial for chromatic accordion

Post by chromaticdg
Hi.. I was told at the Accordion Convention in Las Vegas in June
that there are NO tutorials in English for the chromatic. I am a
new player and am having to work my way through alone, especially
since where I am (Barbados) I'm the only person in these parts with
a squuzebox! The only site on the www that has something about
chromatics that I've found is http://www.thecipher.com/chromatic-
accordion-cipher.html - take a look and see if it helps.

Post by antonista
I also am looking for some tutorials on the c griff chromatic.

I also

Post by antonista
found moser's book to be a bit much. mostly because my german

is not

Post by antonista
that great. If you come across any books in english, please

let me

Post by antonista
know!
Thanks,
Dave

I think there is more of a problem than just the German. I have

the

Post by J. Coon
book, and it doesn't really help a lot, just a lot of theory.

Yes, your German has to be decent, but especially you have to get

straight

Post by Mike Mason
in your mind the entirely different names they have for the

intervals. After

Post by Mike Mason
working on the book for awhile, I started to grasp what Moser was

aiming

Post by Mike Mason
for. IMHO, she is teaching entirely a playing approach based on
ntervals -- that could be excellent for improvisation and for

jazz. And of

Post by Mike Mason
course, your transposition skill would approach the instantaneous.
mdm
-------------------------------------------------------------------

-----

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Marie DiCocco & Celest DiPietropaolo

2004-11-07 00:55:19 UTC

Ed:

I'm not sure what you mean by tutorial; but there is a fine method book
with loads of exercises for PA and C system button. It is called "Metodo
per Fisarmonica". It is by Cambieri, Fugazza, and Melocchi. Berben of
Ancona, Italy is the editor. Volume One contains enough material for
beginner through high intermediate level. It is written for both PA and
C-system with both fingerings and is written in Italian, Spanish, and
English- all in the same book. I paid $15 twenty years ago. I see a few
places on the Internet selling it for about $40.

Post by Ed Bouchard
I was afraid it is the case (that "there are NO tutorials in English for the
chromatic"). I don't yet play a chromatic treble but have been playing a
C-system bass with a treble PA for the last few months. Based on that
experience, if you are just beginning an accordion, unless you want that
certain sound produced by one of the various button boxes, my strong advice
is to opt for either a B or C system CBA. It's a reflection of the state of
the accordion industry in the US.
I have played a PA since I was eight and I'm 64, so I know that keyboard
best. A CBA has many advantages. As Lee pointed out, it's harder to
transpose in a PA than any CBA.
That said, a lot of people do learn to transpose on a PA. The PA keyboard
has been around since long before the piano, What we call a "piano
keyboard", the Harvard Dictionary of Music refers to as a C-Major keyboard.
There is a C-Major keyboard on a 14th century precursor to the clavichord.
The clavichord is based on an ancient monochord, an instrument that was used
from the time Pythagoras to the Renaissance for scientific investigation of
acoustics. But the monochord didn't get a keyboard until the Renaissance.
And until the Renaissance, study of music was classified as a science. When
the first piano's appeared in the 18th century, most all of them had C-Major
keyboards. An Austrian mathematician, Paul von Janko, introduced a 2-row
chromatic keyboard at the end of the 19th century. It was widely promoted
but it never caught on.
The 3-row chromatic keyboard appeared in the middle of the 19th century,
invented by guy named Walther as I recall. Unlike the Janko keyboard, there
was little promotional hype for it. Looking at their comparative history,
the gradual growth of the 3-row chromatic keyboard use is quite remarkable.
People play a CBA because it is easy to play everything, not just for ease
of transposition.
Except for diatonic glissandos in the key of C, I can't think anything that
you can play on a PA that cannot be played on a CBA, and usually more
easily. The reverse, however, isn't the case. For instance, look at the
opening passages of Impasse by Frank Angelis, the 2004 Coupe Mondiale Test
Piece. They simply cannot be played as written on a PA. (see HYPERLINK
"http://www.coupemondiale.org/04_cm_images/lg_impasse1.jpg"http://www.coupem
ondiale.org/04_cm_images/lg_impasse1.jpg or
HYPERLINK"http://www.coupemondiale.org/fr_request.htm"http://www.coupemondiale.org/fr
_request.htm)
Reach possibilities are so much greater on a CBA than on a PA. The piece
begins repeated two octave leaps. Measure after measure, there are passages
that can almost be played on a PA, but with great difficulty. On a CBA,
however, they are a snap.
For those of us who grew up on a PA, maybe it is best to stay with a PA.
However, I'm not sure of that either. It's always good to learn something
new.
As to CBA tutorials in English, there were a couple of books in English for
learning C-system free bass (How to Play the Free Bassetti System Accordion
by Flaviano Fogli and Frank Gaviani and Comprehensive Method for the
Chromatic Free Bass System by Mogens Ellegaard). I'm not sure of their
availability. The fingering will of course be different when you have 5
fingers -- and different for B-system depending on the key. But the
principles should be the same. I find breaking the scale passages into 4
notes helps
Playing a CBA may also help develop better relative pitch. Learning to play
by ear first is probably the best way to learn music.
edb
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2004 4:49 PM
Subject: SML: Re: tutorial for chromatic accordion
Hi.. I was told at the Accordion Convention in Las Vegas in June
that there are NO tutorials in English for the chromatic. I am a
new player and am having to work my way through alone, especially
since where I am (Barbados) I'm the only person in these parts with
a squuzebox! The only site on the www that has something about
chromatics that I've found is HYPERLINK
"http://www.thecipher.com/chromatic-"http://www.thecipher.com/chromatic-
accordion-cipher.html - take a look and see if it helps.

Post by antonista
I also am looking for some tutorials on the c griff chromatic.

I also

Post by antonista
found moser's book to be a bit much. mostly because my german

is not

Post by antonista
that great. If you come across any books in english, please

let me

Post by antonista
know!
Thanks,
Dave

I think there is more of a problem than just the German. I have

the

Post by J. Coon
book, and it doesn't really help a lot, just a lot of theory.

Yes, your German has to be decent, but especially you have to get

straight

Post by Mike Mason
in your mind the entirely different names they have for the

intervals. After

Post by Mike Mason
working on the book for awhile, I started to grasp what Moser was

aiming

Post by Mike Mason
for. IMHO, she is teaching entirely a playing approach based on
ntervals -- that could be excellent for improvisation and for

jazz. And of

Post by Mike Mason
course, your transposition skill would approach the instantaneous.
mdm
-------------------------------------------------------------------

-----

Post by Mike Mason
Processed through gateway at d-and-d.com to squeezebox
mailing list from newsgroup rec.music.makers.squeezebox

Russ Gray

2004-11-01 11:55:01 UTC

Hi mike
drop me an email offlist
Russ

"Mike Mason" <***@microsoft.com> wrote in message
I have Elsbeth's Moser's book, but it's a little abstract for me

mike"

Jim C

2004-11-01 12:25:05 UTC

Well, I think it is a bad decision. The PA is logically laid out in
one key, "C". to learn to play a tune in all twelve keys you have to
learn twelve differfent versions of finger patterns. If a tune s
written in C and you want to play it in G, you have to write out the
music in G ore transpose in your head as you play.

With a 5 row CBA, you learn one pattern and you can play it in any key.
With a 3 row CBA, all you have to learn is 3 patterns and yu can play
in any key.

That said, the Diatonics are a lot of fun too and with a little bit of
practice you can pick out any tune that comes into your head, but only
in the keys on the instrument.

Post by Len Killick
Not a bad decision Mike; for most people I propose that if they
already
have any idea at all what a piano keyboard is the PA is preferable
over
the CBA. If they don't know anything about either of them AND have
plenty
of time and enthusiam for the inital learning the CBA can offer
advantages later: particularly in transposing and speed of playing
(with
limited wrist and arm strain!). If they don't know anything about
anything
I point them to the diatonics not because they are the idiots
instrument
(almost the official German accordeon club opinion) but because they
are
easier to start with and offer a lifetime of discovery.

Post by Len Killick
I know of the book and it's publisher, not sure if it's stocked at

their

Post by Len Killick
German distribution - I'll check.
Len

Thanks Len, but I changed my mind about CBA. Even after working two
weeks on
the chromatic keyboard, I could still play quicker a tune on a

piano

Post by Mike Mason
keyboard layout (and I have not played PA before!). I guess my mind

over

Post by Mike Mason
the
years has absorbed how to change fingering on a piano keyboard and

I no

Post by Mike Mason
longer see any strong advantage for me to start over to learn a

button

Post by Mike Mason
approach.
You mentioned earlier that CBA is not the dominant keyboard in

Europe. I

Post by Mike Mason
wish I could remember where I heard the claim that CBA was the

Western

Post by Mike Mason
European accordion, but at any rate, such a claim is apparently out

Post by Mike Mason
date,
so I do not feel like I am missing something by sticking with the

PA.

Post by Mike Mason
Plus I
couldn't never find a CBA teacher in the States.
mdm

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Johann Pascher

2004-11-01 13:55:05 UTC

Think you are right Jim Coon.

It seams to me that there is a lot of difference in humans.
I think not every one is capable to learn the same way.

I just play for fun, and my fist attempt to play was an Electronic keyboard.
I gave up after a few days of practice. May finger war to short.

I also own a 3 row Schrammel Harmonika and I never came to the point to
learn to play the instrument.

Then, I stared with a two row and ware please to be able to learn by
ear.( so i consider me as that type of player who are "Idiots" still
still ideots also need some plesure)

I never had enough time beside my job to do a lot of practice.

Since two years I manly play on a 4 row diatonic.

At the moment I take lessons to get a bit on the in my ability to play
my Instruments.

My Teacher at the local musical school teaches to play PA, CBA, and
Syrian Type of Diadonic. And she plays several other instruments too,
manly the Contrabass in Groups and in concerts.

See started with PA as child, learned CBA wile attending the
conservatorium and later she started with diatonic and other Instrument.

And her opinion and experience with teaching all this Instruments is
that the diatonic Instrument is the easiest to learn and in many cases
the Instrument that give her the most pleasure in playing.

Still she would not play classical music to a large extent on diatonic
Insruments, then she switches to use the CBA.

Johann

Post by Jim C
Well, I think it is a bad decision. The PA is logically laid out in
one key, "C". to learn to play a tune in all twelve keys you have to
learn twelve differfent versions of finger patterns. If a tune s
written in C and you want to play it in G, you have to write out the
music in G ore transpose in your head as you play.
With a 5 row CBA, you learn one pattern and you can play it in any key.
With a 3 row CBA, all you have to learn is 3 patterns and yu can play
in any key.
That said, the Diatonics are a lot of fun too and with a little bit of
practice you can pick out any tune that comes into your head, but only
in the keys on the instrument.

Post by Len Killick
I know of the book and it's publisher, not sure if it's stocked at

their

Post by Len Killick
German distribution - I'll check.
Len

Thanks Len, but I changed my mind about CBA. Even after working two
weeks on
the chromatic keyboard, I could still play quicker a tune on a

piano

Post by Mike Mason
keyboard layout (and I have not played PA before!). I guess my mind

over

Post by Mike Mason
the
years has absorbed how to change fingering on a piano keyboard and

I no

Post by Mike Mason
longer see any strong advantage for me to start over to learn a

button

Post by Mike Mason
approach.
You mentioned earlier that CBA is not the dominant keyboard in

Europe. I

Post by Mike Mason
wish I could remember where I heard the claim that CBA was the

Western

Post by Mike Mason
European accordion, but at any rate, such a claim is apparently out

Post by Mike Mason
date,
so I do not feel like I am missing something by sticking with the

PA.

Post by Mike Mason
Plus I
couldn't never find a CBA teacher in the States.
mdm

------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Len Killick

2004-11-01 20:10:11 UTC

A lot of good points there Johann.

There certainly is a lot of difference in what different people can do;
and not necessarily better or worse, just different.

Mind you, having said that I'm glad you gave up the keyboard as they seem
to be a curse of the modern times. Many children seem to learn "keyboard"
at school or music school, but I find that they know nothing about music
and have often learnt to play by numbers also with little musical feeling.

It's interesting you might think somebody playing by ear is in the
"idiots" category! I wish I could play be ear! I can do lots of things
with a two row diatonic, but that is not one of them (at least not at all
easily).

Post by Johann Pascher
Think you are right Jim Coon.
It seams to me that there is a lot of difference in humans.
I think not every one is capable to learn the same way.
I just play for fun, and my fist attempt to play was an Electronic keyboard.
I gave up after a few days of practice. May finger war to short.
I also own a 3 row Schrammel Harmonika and I never came to the point to
learn to play the instrument.
Then, I stared with a two row and ware please to be able to learn by
ear.( so i consider me as that type of player who are "Idiots" still
still ideots also need some plesure)
I never had enough time beside my job to do a lot of practice.
Since two years I manly play on a 4 row diatonic.
At the moment I take lessons to get a bit on the in my ability to play
my Instruments.
My Teacher at the local musical school teaches to play PA, CBA, and
Syrian Type of Diadonic. And she plays several other instruments too,
manly the Contrabass in Groups and in concerts.
See started with PA as child, learned CBA wile attending the
conservatorium and later she started with diatonic and other Instrument.
And her opinion and experience with teaching all this Instruments is
that the diatonic Instrument is the easiest to learn and in many cases
the Instrument that give her the most pleasure in playing.
Still she would not play classical music to a large extent on diatonic
Insruments, then she switches to use the CBA.
Johann

key.

Post by Jim C
With a 3 row CBA, all you have to learn is 3 patterns and yu can play
in any key.
That said, the Diatonics are a lot of fun too and with a little bit of
practice you can pick out any tune that comes into your head, but only
in the keys on the instrument.

Post by Len Killick
I know of the book and it's publisher, not sure if it's stocked at

their

Post by Len Killick
German distribution - I'll check.
Len

Thanks Len, but I changed my mind about CBA. Even after working two
weeks on
the chromatic keyboard, I could still play quicker a tune on a

piano

Post by Mike Mason
keyboard layout (and I have not played PA before!). I guess my mind

over

Post by Mike Mason
the
years has absorbed how to change fingering on a piano keyboard and

I no

Post by Mike Mason
longer see any strong advantage for me to start over to learn a

button

Post by Mike Mason
approach.
You mentioned earlier that CBA is not the dominant keyboard in

Europe. I

Post by Mike Mason
wish I could remember where I heard the claim that CBA was the

Western

Post by Mike Mason
European accordion, but at any rate, such a claim is apparently out

Post by Mike Mason
date,
so I do not feel like I am missing something by sticking with the

PA.

Post by Mike Mason
Plus I
couldn't never find a CBA teacher in the States.
mdm

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Post by Mike Mason
Processed through gateway at d-and-d.com to squeezebox
mailing list from newsgroup rec.music.makers.squeezebox
Yahoo! Groups Links

--
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------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
Yahoo! Groups Links

Yahoo! Groups Links

Johann Pascher

2004-11-01 21:40:36 UTC

Hi, Len Killick,

I personally don't think I or someone else is truly an idiot with
playing by ear.

But you used this expression before so I used it.
Should have been a bit more careful with my expression.

Still most musicians are well trained compared to me.

In some way it is even better to be able to listen to the music and
reproduce the music.
Written sheet music cant express everything.

Still I want to improve my skills of using regular written sheet music.

And not everything is easy to hear exactly so I can repeat it the way it
was played the first place.

Single notes and usual two-tone chords are easy to repeat if the part is
not very long. You see it is also not at all easy for me to play by ear.
Often the rhythmus is even harder as the pith of the notes.

So you see I am sometimes tempted to compare with others, but I cant be
compared.

I do have pleasure playing even I am nothing compared to others.
And I make little progress in my playing skills.

And my be there will be a time when I am getting older I am just happy
to play without any progress.

Johann

Post by Len Killick
A lot of good points there Johann.
There certainly is a lot of difference in what different people can do;
and not necessarily better or worse, just different.
Mind you, having said that I'm glad you gave up the keyboard as they seem
to be a curse of the modern times. Many children seem to learn "keyboard"
at school or music school, but I find that they know nothing about music
and have often learnt to play by numbers also with little musical feeling.
It's interesting you might think somebody playing by ear is in the
"idiots" category! I wish I could play be ear! I can do lots of things
with a two row diatonic, but that is not one of them (at least not at all
easily).

key.

Post by Len Killick
I know of the book and it's publisher, not sure if it's stocked at

their

Post by Len Killick
German distribution - I'll check.
Len

Thanks Len, but I changed my mind about CBA. Even after working two
weeks on
the chromatic keyboard, I could still play quicker a tune on a

piano

Post by Mike Mason
keyboard layout (and I have not played PA before!). I guess my mind

over

Post by Mike Mason
the
years has absorbed how to change fingering on a piano keyboard and

I no

Post by Mike Mason
longer see any strong advantage for me to start over to learn a

button

Post by Mike Mason
approach.
You mentioned earlier that CBA is not the dominant keyboard in

Europe. I

Post by Mike Mason
wish I could remember where I heard the claim that CBA was the

Western

Post by Mike Mason
European accordion, but at any rate, such a claim is apparently out

Post by Mike Mason
date,
so I do not feel like I am missing something by sticking with the

PA.

Post by Mike Mason
Plus I
couldn't never find a CBA teacher in the States.
mdm

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Post by Mike Mason
Processed through gateway at d-and-d.com to squeezebox
mailing list from newsgroup rec.music.makers.squeezebox
Yahoo! Groups Links

--
Len Killick. An der Kirche 3, 67550 Worms-Abenheim, Germany
------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
Yahoo! Groups Links

Yahoo! Groups Links

Len Killick

2004-11-02 07:10:06 UTC

Johann,

I know you didn't mean "idiot" but I also know why you use it as that is
the implication from many non-diatonic accordeon players and others,
especially in Germany as you must know. It was one of my first experiences
of accordeon in Germany, going to an accordeon orchestra concert and
talking with the president afterwards I showed some interest in the
diatonic section and his words were "but you said you can read music so
you should play a proper instrument". I've also seen in German music shops
some sales staff who say "Ah, diatonic, you can only play them from
special music, you should get a proper instrument". The implication always
is that diatonic players are the "idiots" of the accordeon world. This
also leads to many hundreds of diatonic players, especially the older
ones, who are a bit frightened to admit that they play.

Playing by ear is a gift for most persons who can do it (I think it can be
learnt to some extent, but initially it's a gift) and you should certainly
be both pleased and proud of it. Indeed most of those who play by ear play
the melody and bass by ear and mostly fill in with their own chords and
fancy pieces. Talking of that reminded me of the times around the end of
the 19th century when at the first performance of a new opera there were
people sitting in the audience who would (and could) write down every note
and word of the performance and promptly publish the score a few days
later (with the most popular songs the next day). Well copyright laws were
something else in those days and performing rights non-existent!

Indeed the pleasure is the most important part of playing, firstly for
yourself and secondly for those who might listen to you be it in private
or public. But don't give up on progress, progress comes at any age (again
there are those who will try to deter you) but I have friends who started
playing diatonic accordeon in their 60s and switched to concertina in the
70s and are still learning and definitely progressing in their 80s. It's
never too late to start or to progress!

Post by Johann Pascher
Hi, Len Killick,
I personally don't think I or someone else is truly an idiot with
playing by ear.
But you used this expression before so I used it.
Should have been a bit more careful with my expression.
Still most musicians are well trained compared to me.
In some way it is even better to be able to listen to the music and
reproduce the music.
Written sheet music cant express everything.
Still I want to improve my skills of using regular written sheet music.
And not everything is easy to hear exactly so I can repeat it the way it
was played the first place.
Single notes and usual two-tone chords are easy to repeat if the part is
not very long. You see it is also not at all easy for me to play by ear.
Often the rhythmus is even harder as the pith of the notes.
So you see I am sometimes tempted to compare with others, but I cant be
compared.
I do have pleasure playing even I am nothing compared to others.
And I make little progress in my playing skills.
And my be there will be a time when I am getting older I am just happy
to play without any progress.
Johann

Post by Johann Pascher
Think you are right Jim Coon.
It seams to me that there is a lot of difference in humans.
I think not every one is capable to learn the same way.
I just play for fun, and my fist attempt to play was an Electronic keyboard.
I gave up after a few days of practice. May finger war to short.
I also own a 3 row Schrammel Harmonika and I never came to the point to
learn to play the instrument.
Then, I stared with a two row and ware please to be able to learn by
ear.( so i consider me as that type of player who are "Idiots" still
still ideots also need some plesure)
I never had enough time beside my job to do a lot of practice.
Since two years I manly play on a 4 row diatonic.
At the moment I take lessons to get a bit on the in my ability to play
my Instruments.
My Teacher at the local musical school teaches to play PA, CBA, and
Syrian Type of Diadonic. And she plays several other instruments too,
manly the Contrabass in Groups and in concerts.
See started with PA as child, learned CBA wile attending the
conservatorium and later she started with diatonic and other
Instrument.
And her opinion and experience with teaching all this Instruments is
that the diatonic Instrument is the easiest to learn and in many cases
the Instrument that give her the most pleasure in playing.
Still she would not play classical music to a large extent on diatonic
Insruments, then she switches to use the CBA.
Johann

key.

Post by Jim C
With a 3 row CBA, all you have to learn is 3 patterns and yu can play
in any key.
That said, the Diatonics are a lot of fun too and with a little bit

Post by Jim C
practice you can pick out any tune that comes into your head, but

only

Post by Jim C
in the keys on the instrument.

Post by Len Killick
I know of the book and it's publisher, not sure if it's stocked

Post by Len Killick
their

Post by Len Killick
German distribution - I'll check.
Len

Thanks Len, but I changed my mind about CBA. Even after working

two

Post by Mike Mason
weeks on
the chromatic keyboard, I could still play quicker a tune on a

piano

Post by Mike Mason
keyboard layout (and I have not played PA before!). I guess my

mind

Post by Len Killick
over

Post by Mike Mason
the
years has absorbed how to change fingering on a piano keyboard and

I no

Post by Mike Mason
longer see any strong advantage for me to start over to learn a

button

Post by Mike Mason
approach.
You mentioned earlier that CBA is not the dominant keyboard in

Europe. I

Post by Mike Mason
wish I could remember where I heard the claim that CBA was the

Western

Post by Mike Mason
European accordion, but at any rate, such a claim is apparently

out

Post by Len Killick
of

Post by Mike Mason
date,
so I do not feel like I am missing something by sticking with the

PA.

Post by Mike Mason
Plus I
couldn't never find a CBA teacher in the States.
mdm

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Post by Mike Mason
Processed through gateway at d-and-d.com to squeezebox
mailing list from newsgroup rec.music.makers.squeezebox
Yahoo! Groups Links

--
Len Killick. An der Kirche 3, 67550 Worms-Abenheim, Germany
------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
Yahoo! Groups Links

Yahoo! Groups Links

Johann Pascher

2004-11-02 09:25:06 UTC

Len Killick,

Thanks for your encouraging words!

I also agree with you, that a lot off musicians did and do consider
diatonic instruments not as proper instruments.

For a long time it was not possible to study diatonic Instrument playing
on a Conservatorium.

But I changed a little bit the last years.
And if I think abut it, it is a problem of the whole reed instrument
family that it is rely new instrument compeered to other classical
instruments traditionally used in Orchestras.

At the moment a lot of young people learn to play Syrian type of
diatonic instruments.
And many of them get relay good in playing and the are capable to play
nearly everything
on 4 row instruments with accidental notes. on the treble side all
notes are available even for 12-tone music. The bassside is a bit
limiting but in many cases this dues not relay matter.
And limiting duos not mean bad; every instrument has its advantages.
I think of Blues Harmonicas or single row diatonic Instruments all can
be better in some way for some kind of music.

On one of my own Instruments I do have 12 double helicon fundamental
basses (bisonic)
And 6 minor + 6 major chords on pull and on push 6 major chords.

So much more on classical music would be possible to play as I am able
to play.

I can't compare to people from the 19 century who could hear a concert
and in the same time write it down. My teacher also has to listen a few
times to a piece of music until she can bring all notes to paper. Just
last week she mentioned it took her 3 hours to write down 2 pages of
written music with lessening to the record. Not a lot of people are like
Mozart and the are still good musicians.

So you see I have still a long way to go, and I am pleased if I can make
little progress. Lets hope we have a few years added to or lives to
please others and us with music.

Post by Len Killick
Johann,
I know you didn't mean "idiot" but I also know why you use it as that is
the implication from many non-diatonic accordeon players and others,
especially in Germany as you must know. It was one of my first experiences
of accordeon in Germany, going to an accordeon orchestra concert and
talking with the president afterwards I showed some interest in the
diatonic section and his words were "but you said you can read music so
you should play a proper instrument". I've also seen in German music shops
some sales staff who say "Ah, diatonic, you can only play them from
special music, you should get a proper instrument". The implication always
is that diatonic players are the "idiots" of the accordeon world. This
also leads to many hundreds of diatonic players, especially the older
ones, who are a bit frightened to admit that they play.
Playing by ear is a gift for most persons who can do it (I think it can be
learnt to some extent, but initially it's a gift) and you should certainly
be both pleased and proud of it. Indeed most of those who play by ear play
the melody and bass by ear and mostly fill in with their own chords and
fancy pieces. Talking of that reminded me of the times around the end of
the 19th century when at the first performance of a new opera there were
people sitting in the audience who would (and could) write down every note
and word of the performance and promptly publish the score a few days
later (with the most popular songs the next day). Well copyright laws were
something else in those days and performing rights non-existent!
Indeed the pleasure is the most important part of playing, firstly for
yourself and secondly for those who might listen to you be it in private
or public. But don't give up on progress, progress comes at any age (again
there are those who will try to deter you) but I have friends who started
playing diatonic accordeon in their 60s and switched to concertina in the
70s and are still learning and definitely progressing in their 80s. It's
never too late to start or to progress!

Post by Johann Pascher
Think you are right Jim Coon.
It seams to me that there is a lot of difference in humans.
I think not every one is capable to learn the same way.
I just play for fun, and my fist attempt to play was an Electronic keyboard.
I gave up after a few days of practice. May finger war to short.
I also own a 3 row Schrammel Harmonika and I never came to the point to
learn to play the instrument.
Then, I stared with a two row and ware please to be able to learn by
ear.( so i consider me as that type of player who are "Idiots" still
still ideots also need some plesure)
I never had enough time beside my job to do a lot of practice.
Since two years I manly play on a 4 row diatonic.
At the moment I take lessons to get a bit on the in my ability to play
my Instruments.
My Teacher at the local musical school teaches to play PA, CBA, and
Syrian Type of Diadonic. And she plays several other instruments too,
manly the Contrabass in Groups and in concerts.
See started with PA as child, learned CBA wile attending the
conservatorium and later she started with diatonic and other
Instrument.
And her opinion and experience with teaching all this Instruments is
that the diatonic Instrument is the easiest to learn and in many cases
the Instrument that give her the most pleasure in playing.
Still she would not play classical music to a large extent on diatonic
Insruments, then she switches to use the CBA.
Johann

key.

Post by Jim C
With a 3 row CBA, all you have to learn is 3 patterns and yu can play
in any key.
That said, the Diatonics are a lot of fun too and with a little bit

Post by Jim C
practice you can pick out any tune that comes into your head, but

only

Post by Jim C
in the keys on the instrument.

Post by Len Killick
I know of the book and it's publisher, not sure if it's stocked

Post by Len Killick
their

Post by Len Killick
German distribution - I'll check.
Len

Thanks Len, but I changed my mind about CBA. Even after working

two

Post by Mike Mason
weeks on
the chromatic keyboard, I could still play quicker a tune on a

piano

Post by Mike Mason
keyboard layout (and I have not played PA before!). I guess my

mind

Post by Len Killick
over

Post by Mike Mason
the
years has absorbed how to change fingering on a piano keyboard and

I no

Post by Mike Mason
longer see any strong advantage for me to start over to learn a

button

Post by Mike Mason
approach.
You mentioned earlier that CBA is not the dominant keyboard in

Europe. I

Post by Mike Mason
wish I could remember where I heard the claim that CBA was the

Western

Post by Mike Mason
European accordion, but at any rate, such a claim is apparently

out

Post by Len Killick
of

Post by Mike Mason
date,
so I do not feel like I am missing something by sticking with the

PA.

Post by Mike Mason
Plus I
couldn't never find a CBA teacher in the States.
mdm

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Post by Mike Mason
Processed through gateway at d-and-d.com to squeezebox
mailing list from newsgroup rec.music.makers.squeezebox
Yahoo! Groups Links

--
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------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
Yahoo! Groups Links

Yahoo! Groups Links

J. Coon

2004-11-02 13:10:05 UTC

I may be wrong, but when you go into a store, it seems the sales people
tend to direct you to the more expensive instruments, lines, etc.
That probably has a lot to do with it.

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Len Killick

2004-11-02 13:10:12 UTC

That could well be the case in a general music store where there is a much
bigger selection of PAs than diatonics; in my store I have diatonics more
expensive than the PAs. But then I'm odd as I like to direct customers to
the instrument which suits their needs best, if I can work out what that
is!

Len

I may be wrong, but when you go into a store, it seems the sales people
tend to direct you to the more expensive instruments, lines, etc.
That probably has a lot to do with it.
Yahoo! Groups Links

Moshe Braner

2004-11-02 15:21:06 UTC

Many people say that the diatonic is "more intuitive" or somehow easier to
learn and play.
Personally, I find it incomprehensible... I am glad that some people do
learn to play it,
as they make such beautiful music :-) But even some diatonic players
make fun of how
illogical it is. See this humoristic exposition for example:
http://www.cadb.org/Parole-4/indexe.html#6

I started on piano, then piano accordion, then picked up the CBA and am
glad I did.

- Moshe

Crs smitty

2004-11-02 20:42:05 UTC

I disagree that diatonics is "illogical"! There is very much a logic to it as
there is to any musical instrument! The chemnitzer keyboard even has a logic
to it as does a typewriter keyboard (and I'm not sure that they are different
at all if you consider only one key!) As to the "intuitive" part - that's true
AFTER you learn the instrument by ear and approach the ability to ask "Hum a
few bars and I'll play it!" (though you may have to change keys from what is
hummed)! All musical instruments are logical - it's just a matter of what the
logic is based on!

Ron Smith, Montana Squeezer

Post by Moshe Braner
Many people say that the diatonic is "more intuitive" or somehow easier to
learn and play.
Personally, I find it incomprehensible... I am glad that some people do
learn to play it,
as they make such beautiful music :-) But even some diatonic players
make fun of how
http://www.cadb.org/Parole-4/indexe.html#6
I started on piano, then piano accordion, then picked up the CBA and am
glad I did.
- Moshe

Len Killick

2004-11-01 20:10:24 UTC

Good or bad decision, I think you agree with my thoughts on the benefits
of CBA against PA which I listed. The problem is whether one has time and
determination to get past the intial stage which is much harder with CBA,
and if you can already handle a piano keyboard it's doubly harder. Some
people, interestingly, cope with transposition on the piano keyboard
without problem and without writing out transposed music (there are a
number of ways to do it, and it is something worth working on too).
Diatonics can play in a lot more keys that you might think from the label
on them. It is yet again a different playing technique (sometimes known as
cheating) and sometimes a bit of lateral thinking but there are a lot of
possibilities!

Post by Len Killick
I know of the book and it's publisher, not sure if it's stocked at

their

Post by Len Killick
German distribution - I'll check.
Len

Thanks Len, but I changed my mind about CBA. Even after working two
weeks on
the chromatic keyboard, I could still play quicker a tune on a

piano

Post by Mike Mason
keyboard layout (and I have not played PA before!). I guess my mind

over

Post by Mike Mason
the
years has absorbed how to change fingering on a piano keyboard and

I no

Post by Mike Mason
longer see any strong advantage for me to start over to learn a

button

Post by Mike Mason
approach.
You mentioned earlier that CBA is not the dominant keyboard in

Europe. I

Post by Mike Mason
wish I could remember where I heard the claim that CBA was the

Western

Post by Mike Mason
European accordion, but at any rate, such a claim is apparently out

Post by Mike Mason
date,
so I do not feel like I am missing something by sticking with the

PA.

Post by Mike Mason
Plus I
couldn't never find a CBA teacher in the States.
mdm

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Post by Mike Mason
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Ed Bouchard

2004-11-01 21:55:05 UTC

I was afraid it is the case (that "there are NO tutorials in English for the
chromatic"). I don't yet play a chromatic treble but have been playing a
C-system bass with a treble PA for the last few months. Based on that
experience, if you are just beginning an accordion, unless you want that
certain sound produced by one of the various button boxes, my strong advice
is to opt for either a B or C system CBA. It's a reflection of the state of
the accordion industry in the US.

I have played a PA since I was eight and I'm 64, so I know that keyboard
best. A CBA has many advantages. As Lee pointed out, it's harder to
transpose in a PA than any CBA.

That said, a lot of people do learn to transpose on a PA. The PA keyboard
has been around since long before the piano, What we call a "piano
keyboard", the Harvard Dictionary of Music refers to as a C-Major keyboard.
There is a C-Major keyboard on a 14th century precursor to the clavichord.
The clavichord is based on an ancient monochord, an instrument that was used
from the time Pythagoras to the Renaissance for scientific investigation of
acoustics. But the monochord didn't get a keyboard until the Renaissance.
And until the Renaissance, study of music was classified as a science. When
the first piano's appeared in the 18th century, most all of them had C-Major
keyboards. An Austrian mathematician, Paul von Janko, introduced a 2-row
chromatic keyboard at the end of the 19th century. It was widely promoted
but it never caught on.

The 3-row chromatic keyboard appeared in the middle of the 19th century,
invented by guy named Walther as I recall. Unlike the Janko keyboard, there
was little promotional hype for it. Looking at their comparative history,
the gradual growth of the 3-row chromatic keyboard use is quite remarkable.
People play a CBA because it is easy to play everything, not just for ease
of transposition.

Except for diatonic glissandos in the key of C, I can't think anything that
you can play on a PA that cannot be played on a CBA, and usually more
easily. The reverse, however, isn't the case. For instance, look at the
opening passages of Impasse by Frank Angelis, the 2004 Coupe Mondiale Test
Piece. They simply cannot be played as written on a PA. (see HYPERLINK
"Loading Image...

"http://www.coupem
ondiale.org/04_cm_images/lg_impasse1.jpg or HYPERLINK
"http://www.coupemondiale.org/fr_request.htm"http://www.coupemondiale.org/fr
_request.htm)

Reach possibilities are so much greater on a CBA than on a PA. The piece
begins repeated two octave leaps. Measure after measure, there are passages
that can almost be played on a PA, but with great difficulty. On a CBA,
however, they are a snap.

For those of us who grew up on a PA, maybe it is best to stay with a PA.
However, I'm not sure of that either. It's always good to learn something
new.

As to CBA tutorials in English, there were a couple of books in English for
learning C-system free bass (How to Play the Free Bassetti System Accordion
by Flaviano Fogli and Frank Gaviani and Comprehensive Method for the
Chromatic Free Bass System by Mogens Ellegaard). I'm not sure of their
availability. The fingering will of course be different when you have 5
fingers -- and different for B-system depending on the key. But the
principles should be the same. I find breaking the scale passages into 4
notes helps

Playing a CBA may also help develop better relative pitch. Learning to play
by ear first is probably the best way to learn music.

edb

-----Original Message-----
From: chromaticdg [mailto:***@caribsurf.com]
Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2004 4:49 PM
Subject: SML: Re: tutorial for chromatic accordion

Hi.. I was told at the Accordion Convention in Las Vegas in June
that there are NO tutorials in English for the chromatic. I am a
new player and am having to work my way through alone, especially
since where I am (Barbados) I'm the only person in these parts with
a squuzebox! The only site on the www that has something about
chromatics that I've found is HYPERLINK
"http://www.thecipher.com/chromatic-"http://www.thecipher.com/chromatic-
accordion-cipher.html - take a look and see if it helps.

Post by antonista
I also am looking for some tutorials on the c griff chromatic.

I also

Post by antonista
found moser's book to be a bit much. mostly because my german

is not

Post by antonista
that great. If you come across any books in english, please

let me

Post by antonista
know!
Thanks,
Dave

I think there is more of a problem than just the German. I have

the

Post by J. Coon
book, and it doesn't really help a lot, just a lot of theory.

Yes, your German has to be decent, but especially you have to get

straight

Post by Mike Mason
in your mind the entirely different names they have for the

intervals. After

Post by Mike Mason
working on the book for awhile, I started to grasp what Moser was

aiming

Post by Mike Mason
for. IMHO, she is teaching entirely a playing approach based on
ntervals -- that could be excellent for improvisation and for

jazz. And of

Post by Mike Mason
course, your transposition skill would approach the instantaneous.
mdm
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Johann Pascher

2004-11-02 10:55:07 UTC

Hi, Ed Bouchard!

I did like to reed your comments!
I would nearly express the same.
Do you have more on Information on Paul von Janko and his 2 row
chromatic keyboard layout?

I never heard of him.

As to the 3 row layout, I always did think Walter did not invent the 3
row chromatic layout.

Walter had invented an Instrument with buttons chromic (mono sonic) but
with different arrangement of keys. Don’t know how the layouts ware. If
someone knows please let me know.
Mathias Bauer 1851 first chromatic (mono sonic) accordion with buttons
arranged like on the piano Mathias Bauer 1854 with piano keys

The piano keyboard ware in use much earlier but not for portable reed
instruments.

B Griff 3 row came later somewhere between 1860 to 1880.

Johann

Post by Ed Bouchard
I was afraid it is the case (that "there are NO tutorials in English for the
chromatic"). I don't yet play a chromatic treble but have been playing a
C-system bass with a treble PA for the last few months. Based on that
experience, if you are just beginning an accordion, unless you want that
certain sound produced by one of the various button boxes, my strong advice
is to opt for either a B or C system CBA. It's a reflection of the state of
the accordion industry in the US.
I have played a PA since I was eight and I'm 64, so I know that keyboard
best. A CBA has many advantages. As Lee pointed out, it's harder to
transpose in a PA than any CBA.
That said, a lot of people do learn to transpose on a PA. The PA keyboard
has been around since long before the piano, What we call a "piano
keyboard", the Harvard Dictionary of Music refers to as a C-Major keyboard.
There is a C-Major keyboard on a 14th century precursor to the clavichord.
The clavichord is based on an ancient monochord, an instrument that was used
from the time Pythagoras to the Renaissance for scientific investigation of
acoustics. But the monochord didn't get a keyboard until the Renaissance.
And until the Renaissance, study of music was classified as a science. When
the first piano's appeared in the 18th century, most all of them had C-Major
keyboards. An Austrian mathematician, Paul von Janko, introduced a 2-row
chromatic keyboard at the end of the 19th century. It was widely promoted
but it never caught on.
The 3-row chromatic keyboard appeared in the middle of the 19th century,
invented by guy named Walther as I recall. Unlike the Janko keyboard, there
was little promotional hype for it. Looking at their comparative history,
the gradual growth of the 3-row chromatic keyboard use is quite remarkable.
People play a CBA because it is easy to play everything, not just for ease
of transposition.
Except for diatonic glissandos in the key of C, I can't think anything that
you can play on a PA that cannot be played on a CBA, and usually more
easily. The reverse, however, isn't the case. For instance, look at the
opening passages of Impasse by Frank Angelis, the 2004 Coupe Mondiale Test
Piece. They simply cannot be played as written on a PA. (see HYPERLINK
"http://www.coupemondiale.org/04_cm_images/lg_impasse1.jpg"http://www.coupem
ondiale.org/04_cm_images/lg_impasse1.jpg or HYPERLINK
"http://www.coupemondiale.org/fr_request.htm"http://www.coupemondiale.org/fr
_request.htm)
Reach possibilities are so much greater on a CBA than on a PA. The piece
begins repeated two octave leaps. Measure after measure, there are passages
that can almost be played on a PA, but with great difficulty. On a CBA,
however, they are a snap.
For those of us who grew up on a PA, maybe it is best to stay with a PA.
However, I'm not sure of that either. It's always good to learn something
new.
As to CBA tutorials in English, there were a couple of books in English for
learning C-system free bass (How to Play the Free Bassetti System Accordion
by Flaviano Fogli and Frank Gaviani and Comprehensive Method for the
Chromatic Free Bass System by Mogens Ellegaard). I'm not sure of their
availability. The fingering will of course be different when you have 5
fingers -- and different for B-system depending on the key. But the
principles should be the same. I find breaking the scale passages into 4
notes helps
Playing a CBA may also help develop better relative pitch. Learning to play
by ear first is probably the best way to learn music.
edb
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2004 4:49 PM
Subject: SML: Re: tutorial for chromatic accordion
Hi.. I was told at the Accordion Convention in Las Vegas in June
that there are NO tutorials in English for the chromatic. I am a
new player and am having to work my way through alone, especially
since where I am (Barbados) I'm the only person in these parts with
a squuzebox! The only site on the www that has something about
chromatics that I've found is HYPERLINK
"http://www.thecipher.com/chromatic-"http://www.thecipher.com/chromatic-
accordion-cipher.html - take a look and see if it helps.

Post by antonista
I also am looking for some tutorials on the c griff chromatic.

I also

Post by antonista
found moser's book to be a bit much. mostly because my german

is not

Post by antonista
that great. If you come across any books in english, please

let me

Post by antonista
know!
Thanks,
Dave

I think there is more of a problem than just the German. I have

the

Post by J. Coon
book, and it doesn't really help a lot, just a lot of theory.

Yes, your German has to be decent, but especially you have to get

straight

Post by Mike Mason
in your mind the entirely different names they have for the

intervals. After

Post by Mike Mason
working on the book for awhile, I started to grasp what Moser was

aiming

Post by Mike Mason
for. IMHO, she is teaching entirely a playing approach based on
ntervals -- that could be excellent for improvisation and for

jazz. And of

Post by Mike Mason
course, your transposition skill would approach the instantaneous.
mdm
-------------------------------------------------------------------

-----

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Ron Kowalewski

2004-11-02 08:25:08 UTC

i started taking lessons about 4-5 years ago on PA. learned a lot of theory
and technique. That foundation helped me to play with other people and
understand chord progressions and relatives keys/ cicle of fifths.

with that said my inspiration and latest improvements have come from playing
by ear and watching/dancing to countless hours of zydeco at a roots music
festival.

some stuff is all abouty rhythm, a little singing/hollering, and some other
musicians you can trust to keep a groove going when your head and fingers
are trying to produce something in your mind.

Ron

-----Original Message-----
From: Len Killick [mailto:***@killick.de]
Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2004 1:53 AM
Subject: Re: SML: Re: Re: tutorial for chromatic accordion

Johann,

I know you didn't mean "idiot" but I also know why you use it as that is
the implication from many non-diatonic accordeon players and others,
especially in Germany as you must know. It was one of my first experiences
of accordeon in Germany, going to an accordeon orchestra concert and
talking with the president afterwards I showed some interest in the
diatonic section and his words were "but you said you can read music so
you should play a proper instrument". I've also seen in German music shops
some sales staff who say "Ah, diatonic, you can only play them from
special music, you should get a proper instrument". The implication always
is that diatonic players are the "idiots" of the accordeon world. This
also leads to many hundreds of diatonic players, especially the older
ones, who are a bit frightened to admit that they play.

Playing by ear is a gift for most persons who can do it (I think it can be
learnt to some extent, but initially it's a gift) and you should certainly
be both pleased and proud of it. Indeed most of those who play by ear play
the melody and bass by ear and mostly fill in with their own chords and
fancy pieces. Talking of that reminded me of the times around the end of
the 19th century when at the first performance of a new opera there were
people sitting in the audience who would (and could) write down every note
and word of the performance and promptly publish the score a few days
later (with the most popular songs the next day). Well copyright laws were
something else in those days and performing rights non-existent!

Indeed the pleasure is the most important part of playing, firstly for
yourself and secondly for those who might listen to you be it in private
or public. But don't give up on progress, progress comes at any age (again
there are those who will try to deter you) but I have friends who started
playing diatonic accordeon in their 60s and switched to concertina in the
70s and are still learning and definitely progressing in their 80s. It's
never too late to start or to progress!

Post by Len Killick
A lot of good points there Johann.
There certainly is a lot of difference in what different people can do;
and not necessarily better or worse, just different.
Mind you, having said that I'm glad you gave up the keyboard as they
seem
to be a curse of the modern times. Many children seem to learn
"keyboard"
at school or music school, but I find that they know nothing about music
and have often learnt to play by numbers also with little musical
feeling.
It's interesting you might think somebody playing by ear is in the
"idiots" category! I wish I could play be ear! I can do lots of things
with a two row diatonic, but that is not one of them (at least not at
all
easily).

Post by Johann Pascher
Think you are right Jim Coon.
It seams to me that there is a lot of difference in humans.
I think not every one is capable to learn the same way.
I just play for fun, and my fist attempt to play was an Electronic
keyboard.
I gave up after a few days of practice. May finger war to short.
I also own a 3 row Schrammel Harmonika and I never came to the point
to
learn to play the instrument.
Then, I stared with a two row and ware please to be able to learn by
ear.( so i consider me as that type of player who are "Idiots" still
still ideots also need some plesure)
I never had enough time beside my job to do a lot of practice.
Since two years I manly play on a 4 row diatonic.
At the moment I take lessons to get a bit on the in my ability to play
my Instruments.
My Teacher at the local musical school teaches to play PA, CBA, and
Syrian Type of Diadonic. And she plays several other instruments too,
manly the Contrabass in Groups and in concerts.
See started with PA as child, learned CBA wile attending the
conservatorium and later she started with diatonic and other
Instrument.
And her opinion and experience with teaching all this Instruments is
that the diatonic Instrument is the easiest to learn and in many cases
the Instrument that give her the most pleasure in playing.
Still she would not play classical music to a large extent on diatonic
Insruments, then she switches to use the CBA.
Johann

key.

Post by Jim C
With a 3 row CBA, all you have to learn is 3 patterns and yu can play
in any key.
That said, the Diatonics are a lot of fun too and with a little bit

Post by Jim C
practice you can pick out any tune that comes into your head, but

only

Post by Jim C
in the keys on the instrument.

Post by Len Killick
I know of the book and it's publisher, not sure if it's stocked

Post by Len Killick
their

Post by Len Killick
German distribution - I'll check.
Len

Thanks Len, but I changed my mind about CBA. Even after working

two