Discussion:
Crucianelli 80c 2 go
(too old to reply)
Theo
20 years ago
Permalink
Hi - pls forgive if this is too commercial. A relation has asked me to
dispose of her father's accordion (he can no longer play), which he claimed
was purchased about 50 years ago for $3000. (Is this even possible?) Various
tags say

Pancordion, Inc.
Mod. 80c
Crucianelli
#51xxx

Is it worth anything? Should I just put it on eBay for her, or is there a
better way to maximize value? Or if it's not worth much, am I likely to be
able to trade it to an acoustic music shop for something she can use, like
CDs or whatever?

Thanks very much - I'm a bit out of my depth here.

-Theo
j***@houston.rr.com
20 years ago
Permalink
Hi Theo,

The best way to find out what it may be worth is to put it up for sale
on eBay. Keep your expectations low ($50-$100), and take close up
pictures, especially of the registers.

Good luck,
stephen_navoyosky
20 years ago
Permalink
spam)>
Post by Theo
Hi - pls forgive if this is too commercial. A relation has asked
me to dispose of her father's accordion (he can no longer play),
which he claimed was purchased about 50 years ago for $3000.
(Is this even possible?) Various tags say
Post by Theo
Pancordion, Inc.
Mod. 80c
Crucianelli
#51xxx
Is it worth anything? Should I just put it on eBay for her, or is
there a better way to maximize value? Or if it's not worth much,
am I likely to be able to trade it to an acoustic music shop for
something she can use, like CDs or whatever?
Post by Theo
Thanks very much - I'm a bit out of my depth here.
-Theo
No one here can tell you values without seeing it and
investigating it's workability. It's quite possible it's value could be
$3000 if in mint condition as it sounds like the line top for that
amount in the 50s.

Take it to a bonafide accordion technician and pay his price to
appraise it for you. Only then will you be assured as to where you
stand with this instrument. He should be able to give you
different appraisal types that will determine your direction. Going
elsewhere--pawn shops, ebay and the like, will only keep you
confused and being taken advantage of.

Steve Navoyosky




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Ike
20 years ago
Permalink
...
Your advice Steve is given without much input from the sellers. You are
telling them to do things which might not be possible for them. In fact, in
many cases I find your pontification to be condescending.
--
www.1accordion.net

Ike Milligan
j***@houston.rr.com
20 years ago
Permalink
Hi Theo,
Here's my experience in dealing with an old accordion.

My father left me his old accordion (made circa 1950), I had no inteest
in it, but my son (11 years old at the time) decided that he wanted to
learn how to play it. I took it to a local accordion repair shop and he
told me that it needed retuning and several other things fixed on it.
Cost: $600. I asked him how much the accordion was worth in the present
state and he said $3,000-$4,000. I went ahead and had the accordion
fixed for my son. He has progressed very nicely and 18 months ago I
bought him a new top of the line accordion directly from Italy for
$3,600.

Looking back on it now, I know that my father's accordion after the
repairs is really is worth $500 at best. But it has sentimental value
that far exceeds monetary value. So it was money well spent.

It is possible that your accordion is worth $3,000, but it is also
extremely inprobable. If the appraiser says that it's worth more than
$100 ask him if he will buy it from you.

If you have time learn more about the instrument, but keep in mind that
the accordion is the most complex musical instrument out there (expect
electronic ones). Start by going to
http://www.fbc-accordion-club.org/accordion_facts.htm If you don't
have the time just find an accordion teacher in your area and give it
to him. He will find a good home for it, and maybe share the proceeds
with you.

Good luck.
Joe
stephen_navoyosky
20 years ago
Permalink
spam)>
Post by Ike
Post by stephen_navoyosky
Post by Theo
Hi - pls forgive if this is too commercial. A relation has
asked me to dispose of her father's accordion (he can no longer
play), which he claimed was purchased about 50 years ago for
$3000. (Is this even possible?) Various tags say
Post by Ike
Post by stephen_navoyosky
Post by Theo
Pancordion, Inc.
Mod. 80c
Crucianelli
#51xxx
Is it worth anything? Should I just put it on eBay for her, or is
there a better way to maximize value? Or if it's not worth
much, am I likely to be able to trade it to an acoustic music shop
for something she can use, like CDs or whatever?
Post by Ike
Post by stephen_navoyosky
Post by Theo
Thanks very much - I'm a bit out of my depth here.
-Theo
No one here can tell you values without seeing it and
investigating it's workability. It's quite possible it's value could
be $3000 if in mint condition as it sounds like the line top for that
Post by Ike
Post by stephen_navoyosky
amount in the 50s.
Take it to a bonafide accordion technician and pay his price
to appraise it for you. Only then will you be assured as to where
you stand with this instrument. He should be able to give you
Post by Ike
Post by stephen_navoyosky
different appraisal types that will determine your direction.
Going elsewhere--pawn shops, ebay and the like, will only keep
you confused and being taken advantage of.
Post by Ike
Post by stephen_navoyosky
Steve Navoyosky
Your advice Steve is given without much input from the sellers.
You are telling them to do things which might not be possible for
them. In fact, in many cases I find your pontification to be
condescending.
Post by Ike
--
Ike Milligan
Thank you, Ike. Cordial as usual.
I did hear from the seller who felt it was good advice and would
proceed accordingly. What better place to go than a 'bonafide'
shop for a proper inspection and appraisal? With the limited
input, how else to answer but by direction?
If you had a better answer, why not respond accordingly, instead
of to my post?
Steve




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Ike
20 years ago
Permalink
...
Well, Steve, it was not a personal observation about you alone, and indeed I
have always read all your posts with interest. Truly it was a reaction to
the fact that a lot of advice i read in this NG including in this instance,
yours, is not taking into consideration the probable limitations of the
resources available to the people asking for the help. What looks like good
advice to you, often is only useful to people with great determination or
time to spare, not to mention greatly above average intelligence.
OFten I read advice in this ng based on a fantasy of the situation, rather
than actual knowledge of the situation. The advice is applicable to the
person giving it, more so to the person reciving it.
Joe Kesselman
20 years ago
Permalink
Post by Ike
not taking into consideration the probable
limitations of the resources available to the people asking for the
help.
Disagree somewhat. "Ask an expert" is intended to solicit the response
"OK, I live in East Umphedra, New Jersey; who's knowledgable and
trustworthy in my area?" _THAT_ is a question we have a chance of giving
a useful answer to.
Ike
20 years ago
Permalink
Post by Joe Kesselman
not taking into consideration the probable limitations of the resources
available to the people asking for the help.
Disagree somewhat. "Ask an expert" is intended to solicit the response
"OK, I live in East Umphedra, New Jersey; who's knowledgable and
trustworthy in my area?" _THAT_ is a question we have a chance of giving a
useful answer to.
Maybe so. Also I want to correct one of the typos in my post which should
have read -- less so to the person receiving (the advice). The question
about value is axed by people who know little about accordions. Usually
nothing about how to play one. These people probably have no business owning
one, except in a few rare circumstances, which will be immediately obvious.
For instance, a situation where they are trying to dispose of an estate with
an accordion recently used by a professional. In that case they will
probably be smart enough or have the connections to figure out how to judge
a value or have an appraisal.
Other than that, they should have to take their chances.
Throwing out advice to the four winds, as it were, is at best irrevelant or
inadequate, or at worst misleading to a person without the good judgement or
resources to properly apply it, and who might get into a situation where
they are taken advantage of, not that it really matters to me. The Good Lord
watches the sparrow's fall. That's not my job.
--
www.1accordion.net

Ike Milligan
Joe Kesselman
20 years ago
Permalink
question about value is axed by people who know little about accordions.
I presume you mean "is asked".
Usually nothing about how to play one. These people probably have no
business owning one
Sorry, but that's unreasonable. Often they are trying to decide what to
do about this -- whether to learn to play it or sell it, whether they
need to insure it (and if so for how much), whether it's worth the
investment of getting it fixed up before any of the above.
Other than that, they should have to take their chances.
Why? Because nobody helped you when you were a beginner and you're still
sulking? Or because you're hoping to buy these instruments at
less-than-fair prices?

If _you_ don't want to offer any guidance, that's your choice.
Complaining when other folks aren't so swift to dismiss the question
seems rather mean-tempered. We were all newbies once. I don't consider
myself much more than one.
Throwing out advice to the four winds, as it were, is at best irrevelant
or inadequate, or at worst misleading to a person without the good
judgement or resources to properly apply it
You're making a negative judgement about a person's competence from the
fact that they were competent enough to realize that they needed to ask
the question? Sorry, but I really don't see how that follows.
The Good Lord watches the sparrow's fall. That's not my job.
Fine, but there are folks who believe the ASPCA has a legitimate role to
play, even it if sometimes stands for the Amateur Squeezebox Purchase
and Conservation Advisers.

If it bores you, skip to the next thread. You'll be happier, and so will
the querants and those who don't feel it's our duty to make fun of them.
Ike
20 years ago
Permalink
Post by Joe Kesselman
question about value is axed by people who know little about accordions.
I presume you mean "is asked".
Usually nothing about how to play one. These people probably have no
business owning one
Sorry, but that's unreasonable. Often they are trying to decide what to do
about this -- whether to learn to play it or sell it, whether they need to
insure it (and if so for how much), whether it's worth the investment of
getting it fixed up before any of the above.
How does that make them have any business owning one? If they don't play
one, and aren't trying to l;earn, then with very few exceptions they are
wasting their own and everyone else's time. There are a handfjul of
knowledgeable technicians or teachers who could look at the accordion and
give an opinion, in the latter case often a wrong opinion, yet people in the
ng are telling them to find someone to look at it. I'm admittng it is a
problematic situation, and you are calling it unreasonable. If you have your
way, you are like the person who, if asked for directions on the street,
answers, "Well, let me think... It could be that way, or maybe that way." I
can understand people wanting to know value. What I can't understand is the
anmswers they get. My answer is usually, "Get a life", in effect or, if I am
in a good mood that day, and it might not be total junk, offer to buy it for
a little money. Not that I don't already have too many accordions and not
enough time to fix them all, since people who do have any business owning
one, keep giving me more work to do.
Post by Joe Kesselman
Other than that, they should have to take their chances.
Why? Because nobody helped you when you were a beginner and you're still
sulking? Or because you're hoping to buy these instruments at
less-than-fair prices?
There are no less-than-fair prices. Such an animal doesn't exist.
Post by Joe Kesselman
If _you_ don't want to offer any guidance, that's your choice. Complaining
when other folks aren't so swift to dismiss the question seems rather
mean-tempered. We were all newbies once. I don't consider myself much more
than one.
I'm not complaining. Just pointing out ridiculous folly.
Post by Joe Kesselman
Throwing out advice to the four winds, as it were, is at best irrevelant
or inadequate, or at worst misleading to a person without the good
judgement or resources to properly apply it
You're making a negative judgement about a person's competence from the
fact that they were competent enough to realize that they needed to ask
the question? Sorry, but I really don't see how that follows.
It's OK if you don't understand. But I deny making a judgement. I made a
blanket statement, not a judgement of a particular person.
Post by Joe Kesselman
The Good Lord watches the sparrow's fall. That's not my job.
Fine, but there are folks who believe the ASPCA has a legitimate role to
play, even it if sometimes stands for the Amateur Squeezebox Purchase and
Conservation Advisers.
Not only an excercise in futility in most cases, but actually causing
confusion. For one example, people taking the advice to find an expert
would more likely to be taken advantage of by someone who takes money to
repair the accordion, which does no good or most often makes it worse,
letting the owner think they need to have it fixed before selling it or
giving it away. Often these self-styled experts mean well, but basically are
just out to make money. I would almost never take a job from a person who
doesn't play the accordion, unless it is for a relative who hasn't got the
resources to do it themselves, and then if I am sure it is the kind of
accordion that person needs, for example one that they used to play and now
needs repair. If someone is interested in value, I will almost always find
for them, that the money they spend, and the time I spend, will increase the
real value only about as much as the effort spent. It's not like real estate
where in some morkets, (not this one I live in) you can fairly easily find a
fixer-upper house and spend a little and make a lot. True, you could take an
accordion with some mechanical problems, fix those relatively easilyh and
then represent the instrument as having been reconditioned. Some people are
doing that. Often the repairs they do are done wrong, and the accordion
still has bad reed wax, or worse, has been attempted to be tuned badly. Then
they might sell it adding in the cost of the bad repairs.
Post by Joe Kesselman
If it bores you, skip to the next thread. You'll be happier, and so will
the querants and those who don't feel it's our duty to make fun of them.
I can understand your attitude, but it happens to be based on well-meaning
ignorance.
--
www.1accordion.net

Ike Milligan
Joe Kesselman
20 years ago
Permalink
Post by Ike
I can understand your attitude, but it happens to be based on
well-meaning ignorance.
Funny, I feel the same way about yours. I think that means we have to
simply agree that we disagree.

Which brings me back to: If discussion of value and valuation bothers
you, tune out. Most newsreaders have good block-this-thread features.
Ike
20 years ago
Permalink
Post by Joe Kesselman
Post by Ike
I can understand your attitude, but it happens to be based on
well-meaning ignorance.
Funny, I feel the same way about yours. I think that means we have to
simply agree that we disagree.
Which brings me back to: If discussion of value and valuation bothers you,
tune out. Most newsreaders have good block-this-thread features.
That would take the fun out of my highlighting your mental defects, since I
would not be aware of their specific nature.
Joe Kesselman
20 years ago
Permalink
Post by Ike
That would take the fun out of my highlighting your mental defects,
since I would not be aware of their specific nature.
I see. "We try to make all participants in this newsgroup happy. Some
aren't happy unless they're arguing pointlessly about something."
Ike
20 years ago
Permalink
Post by Joe Kesselman
Post by Ike
That would take the fun out of my highlighting your mental defects, since
I would not be aware of their specific nature.
I see. "We try to make all participants in this newsgroup happy. Some
aren't happy unless they're arguing pointlessly about something."
And that would seem to be you, at the moment, since you deleted all the
relevant possibly useful information from the post you started this section
of the flame war with, which you continue to do, now that the part where you
suggested I killfile whatever I don't want to hear has now been deleted as
well.
Don't try to argue with me because I have ways of proving you wrong. I've
been honing my flame skills in much tougher environments than this
relatively genteel one. Not that flaming alone would carry the day. Most
people who might accidentally read this, don't know or care what the
argument is about anyway, and really neither do I.
But just to review the matter, it was about accordion valuation. ou at one
point implied that I might want to buy an accordion for less than fair
value, just because I tried to clue everyone in that the vast majority of
used accordions actually have anegative monetary value, regardless of their
original cost.
You seemed to think that we in the ng somehow have an obligation to the
world to help set prices on accordions. That would be a fool's erand indeed.
As for buying accordions at less than fair vlaue, I would point out that I
did buy Mr. Kopko's Imperator IV without even seeing it, at his asking price
of $750 which needs every possible repair escpt maybe bellows, even thogh it
was played maybe a dozen times since it was new in 1960. One reason is that
the pads were bad foam which is useles after thes 40 years and has to be
replaced in the tone chamber and out, as well as in the bass, plus a
complete reed overhaul and possibly tuning. now you might say, that new it
would cost $5000. Yes, but it requires maybe 40 hours work and possibly new
bellows, and still is not a new accordion. So whatever is spent on it, if
someone were hiring me, might or might not increase the value much more than
the cost of my labor.
Yet you are saying that we ought to try to serve the public by estimating
accordion value, or helping the public to find out these questions, in spite
of the fact that there are maybe a handful of people in the whole country
qualified to restore accordions. the only people needing to be concerned
with these matters are accordion players. An accordion is not a static
opbject like a painting, or even as durable as a violin or piano. After 30
years, unless it has been maintained by one of these handful of technicians
it is raw material, like iron ore economically speaking. Sure it has some
potential to be a musical instrument again, but economically it has not
much value.
Personally I have nothing to prove. But I will tell busybodies like yourself
to bug off.

Jim C
20 years ago
Permalink
Guys, can't we all just get along?
...
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Ike
20 years ago
Permalink
Post by Jim C
Guys, can't we all just get along?
He's suggesting I killfile him, an honor I have reserved for persistent
usenet spammers who seldom or never answer their posts and/or constantly
post over-the-top polemical diatribes or useless links. Sorry, Charlie. Only
the absolutely abysmally worst get to be in my killfile. Just being a
self-important idiot doesn't qualify him for the honor.
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