Who makes (made) Dallape?

[Ike Milligan]

A question from Australia. chromatic button accordion, dallape
organtone- cassotto,
special model sumadija N58. 6 row. He says he spoke to "Mr. Dallape" on
the phone about value.

[j***@ntlworld.com]

Post by Ike Milligan
A question from Australia. chromatic button accordion, dallape
organtone- cassotto,
special model sumadija N58. 6 row. He says he spoke to "Mr. Dallape" on
the phone about value.

Dallapé accordions are one of the first family businesses in the
accordion world. They still exist in the Italian city of Stradella, and
still make fine accordions. Mariano Dallapé, who founded the firm is
credited with introducing the Stradella Bass system, although this is
debatable. To say that he was an injured explosives expert by trade, he
did quite well making accordions in later life.
Mike O'R

[w.d.]

Post by j***@ntlworld.com

Post by Ike Milligan
A question from Australia. chromatic button accordion, dallape
organtone- cassotto,
special model sumadija N58. 6 row. He says he spoke to "Mr. Dallape" on
the phone about value.

Dallapé accordions are one of the first family businesses in the
accordion world. They still exist in the Italian city of Stradella, and
still make fine accordions. Mariano Dallapé, who founded the firm is
credited with introducing the Stradella Bass system, although this is
debatable. To say that he was an injured explosives expert by trade, he
did quite well making accordions in later life.
Mike O'R

That Dellape Organtone - Serbian style CBA Samadiya, or 6 treble
rows, with 140 bass, 7 rows bass machine is the worst piece of junk I
had ever seen that came from Italy when it comes to bass mechanism. I
cannot imagine how the "inventor" of bass machine could put such
a bad designed bass machine inside his own accordion. It's a
shame that soem people spent so much money buying that junky product.
I have one that I got for free, so I know it. Mr. Mariano Dellape is
not interested to do something about his mistakes when comes to old
accordions.

[s***@neo.rr.com]

Guerrini makes the Dallape' models.
Dallape' assembles.
Mariano Dallape' died long ago.
The original bass system has changed very little through the years but
it's quite a unique operation.

--
Stephen J. Navoyosky

***@neo.rr.com

[w.d.]

Post by s***@neo.rr.com
Guerrini makes the Dallape' models.
Dallape' assembles.
Mariano Dallape' died long ago.
The original bass system has changed very little through the years but
it's quite a unique operation.
--
Stephen J. Navoyosky

I took apart and fixed broken parts and put it back tree time this so
called unique system. Fourth time I took it apart, because I had to
fix two valves. I kept everything organized on big cardboards
according to the lay out. Accidentally, I caught the piece of wood
that fall from the table and I also accidently pushed all those parts
laying down in teh sequence. Everything spilled all over. I still
can locate three bass buttons. I hated to go through it again and I
gave it up because other work was more imortant. I have everything that
belongs to that machine.

The problem is that this machine has to be worked with bending every
wire piece by piece and every piston for the bass rods and valves is
made out of the thin wire. Also, the pistons for the chords are
combination of the wire with half of every piston made from aluminum
like in Stradella. This is terrible system to work on. If they still
keep the same combination of parts in bass system, I would not advice
to anyone to buy this accordion.

After everything is put together the buttons have to be straighten up
individually and there is constant fight with touching and rubbing
wires. No! I can't go through that again. It would be much better
to use Stradella bass machine adopted for this system. In such a case
the root bass valves and opening would have to be switch around. This
would require new plate with registration components to be adopted for
it.

I'm searching for best solution. I probably could replace the whole
system by somebody in Italy but it would cost at least $500 I think.
I'm not really after renovation of this accordion, because I already
have two Ukrainian bayans and this satisfy my needs to play around with
chromatic accordions.

That Dellape Organtone bass system is really bad system. After I got
this accordion for free, and I took the bass machine apart I have seen
that somebody in Serbia was working constantly on this bass machine
since it was breaking for that person like crazy. If the basses could
be changed to a new system. it would be nice, but still very heavy
chromatic accordion with six rows flat treble keyboard and in basses
140 button. It still could be used for practice of right hand the way
it is.

After I clean my workshop from access of fixed accordion, I might
come and spend more time with this Dellape, but definitely, I will
try to change the bass machine for Stradella, or adopt Scandalli bass
system if I find the appropriate junk accordion. Why Scandalli?
Because Scandalli has similar location for the valves in root basses.

In order to fix this system the way it is, I would have to buy
Heliark small welding machine and I would have to spend $1700 for that.
It makes no sense at this point when accordion market is terribly
depressed,a and also I plan to retire from this "hobby" for good, and
devote my time for playing only.

Enjoy it,
W.D.

[Ike Milligan]

Post by w.d.

Post by s***@neo.rr.com
Guerrini makes the Dallape' models.
Dallape' assembles.
Mariano Dallape' died long ago.
The original bass system has changed very little through the years but
it's quite a unique operation.
--
Stephen J. Navoyosky

I took apart and fixed broken parts and put it back tree time this so
called unique system. Fourth time I took it apart, because I had to
fix two valves. I kept everything organized on big cardboards
according to the lay out. Accidentally, I caught the piece of wood
that fall from the table and I also accidently pushed all those parts
laying down in teh sequence. Everything spilled all over. I still
can locate three bass buttons. I hated to go through it again and I
gave it up because other work was more imortant. I have everything that
belongs to that machine.
The problem is that this machine has to be worked with bending every
wire piece by piece and every piston for the bass rods and valves is
made out of the thin wire. Also, the pistons for the chords are
combination of the wire with half of every piston made from aluminum
like in Stradella. This is terrible system to work on. If they still
keep the same combination of parts in bass system, I would not advice
to anyone to buy this accordion.
After everything is put together the buttons have to be straighten up
individually and there is constant fight with touching and rubbing
wires. No! I can't go through that again. It would be much better
to use Stradella bass machine adopted for this system. In such a case
the root bass valves and opening would have to be switch around. This
would require new plate with registration components to be adopted for
it.
I'm searching for best solution. I probably could replace the whole
system by somebody in Italy but it would cost at least $500 I think.
I'm not really after renovation of this accordion, because I already
have two Ukrainian bayans and this satisfy my needs to play around with
chromatic accordions.
That Dellape Organtone bass system is really bad system. After I got
this accordion for free, and I took the bass machine apart I have seen
that somebody in Serbia was working constantly on this bass machine
since it was breaking for that person like crazy. If the basses could
be changed to a new system. it would be nice, but still very heavy
chromatic accordion with six rows flat treble keyboard and in basses
140 button. It still could be used for practice of right hand the way
it is.
After I clean my workshop from access of fixed accordion, I might
come and spend more time with this Dellape, but definitely, I will
try to change the bass machine for Stradella, or adopt Scandalli bass
system if I find the appropriate junk accordion. Why Scandalli?
Because Scandalli has similar location for the valves in root basses.
In order to fix this system the way it is, I would have to buy
Heliark small welding machine and I would have to spend $1700 for that.
It makes no sense at this point when accordion market is terribly
depressed,a and also I plan to retire from this "hobby" for good, and
devote my time for playing only.
Enjoy it,
W.D.

How much is an Australian dollar worth?

[w.d.]

Post by s***@neo.rr.com
Guerrini makes the Dallape' models.
Dallape' assembles.
Mariano Dallape' died long ago.
The original bass system has changed very little through the years but
it's quite a unique operation.
--
Stephen J. Navoyosky

Hello Stephen,

If you didn't find yet those parts please don't look for them. I
calculated my time that I would loose a lot working on it . It's
better for me to use my time working on better accordions. It would
be very interesting project but very challenging, that seems like
making a new prototype.

So, I decided to put it of for good, and instead sell a couple more
accordions to get some funds for making new machine if the price will
be right. I found somebody in Italy that will do it for me a
different set up than the old Dallape. I want Stradella system
anyway, and not the Dallape proprietary bass system. .

It could be possible to do on my own but the whole problem lies with
the register plate that has wider spread of holes openings for the
valve.
It wood require to weld extra extensions to pistons and make new
vertical slots in the bass piston guide and adding 20 extra bass chords
anchors. It just doesn't pay and would be even more involved than
meking new wire pistons for the old system. You're right that it could
be fixed with a little patience, but I'm so busy now that have no time
for it.

Best Regards,

Thanks for trying to help me,
Walter D.

[t***@Yahoo.com]

Post by w.d.
Hello Stephen,
If you didn't find yet those parts please don't look for them. I
calculated my time that I would loose a lot working on it . It's
better for me to use my time working on better accordions. It would
be very interesting project but very challenging, that seems like
making a new prototype.
So, I decided to put it of for good, and instead sell a couple more
accordions to get some funds for making new machine if the price will
be right. I found somebody in Italy that will do it for me a
different set up than the old Dallape. I want Stradella system
anyway, and not the Dallape proprietary bass system. .
It could be possible to do on my own but the whole problem lies with
the register plate that has wider spread of holes openings for the
valve.
It wood require to weld extra extensions to pistons and make new
vertical slots in the bass piston guide and adding 20 extra bass chords
anchors. It just doesn't pay and would be even more involved than
meking new wire pistons for the old system. You're right that it could
be fixed with a little patience, but I'm so busy now that have no time
for it.
Best Regards,
Thanks for trying to help me,
Walter D.

Walter, I've been detained but still plan on going through the rest of
the stock and the extra bass machines. Finding the design you desire is
the problem for it's not prevalent. I do believe I have it somewhere.
Now if you would be satisfied with a normal stradella system, I can
oblige you. It won't be 140 bass but you can always close off the extra
row cosmetically from the external side of the button board.
Now I have a four foot by eight foot by a foot high drawer of new bass
pistons. If that system you're attempting to convert will handle these
pistons, that could be an answer. Naturally we're dealing with button
diameter to fit the holes with a slight tolerance, and pin rivits for
the pistons to control the upright wires from the pipes. For sure it's
hard work but it depends on your desire to convert this instrument for
your use. I will still search for my own curiosity if nothing else and
upon finding it, I'll let you know. Then you can just exchange the bass
machine abd perhaps place the proper button size on each piston.
--
Stephen J. Navoyosky

***@neo.rr.com

[Krazy Kanuck]

Gee Steve....looks like you were over at Tulio's place again and posting
with his laptop?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

Post by t***@Yahoo.com

Post by w.d.
Hello Stephen,
If you didn't find yet those parts please don't look for them. I
calculated my time that I would loose a lot working on it . It's
better for me to use my time working on better accordions. It would
be very interesting project but very challenging, that seems like
making a new prototype.
So, I decided to put it of for good, and instead sell a couple more
accordions to get some funds for making new machine if the price will
be right. I found somebody in Italy that will do it for me a
different set up than the old Dallape. I want Stradella system
anyway, and not the Dallape proprietary bass system. .
It could be possible to do on my own but the whole problem lies with
the register plate that has wider spread of holes openings for the
valve.
It wood require to weld extra extensions to pistons and make new
vertical slots in the bass piston guide and adding 20 extra bass chords
anchors. It just doesn't pay and would be even more involved than
meking new wire pistons for the old system. You're right that it could
be fixed with a little patience, but I'm so busy now that have no time
for it.
Best Regards,
Thanks for trying to help me,
Walter D.

Walter, I've been detained but still plan on going through the rest of
the stock and the extra bass machines. Finding the design you desire is
the problem for it's not prevalent. I do believe I have it somewhere.
Now if you would be satisfied with a normal stradella system, I can
oblige you. It won't be 140 bass but you can always close off the extra
row cosmetically from the external side of the button board.
Now I have a four foot by eight foot by a foot high drawer of new bass
pistons. If that system you're attempting to convert will handle these
pistons, that could be an answer. Naturally we're dealing with button
diameter to fit the holes with a slight tolerance, and pin rivits for
the pistons to control the upright wires from the pipes. For sure it's
hard work but it depends on your desire to convert this instrument for
your use. I will still search for my own curiosity if nothing else and
upon finding it, I'll let you know. Then you can just exchange the bass
machine abd perhaps place the proper button size on each piston.
--
Stephen J. Navoyosky

[Jack Campin - bogus address]

Post by Krazy Kanuck

Post by t***@Yahoo.com
Walter, I've been detained but still plan on going through the rest of
the stock and the extra bass machines.

Gee Steve....looks like you were over at Tulio's place again and posting
with his laptop?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

From here, it looks like Steve was putting significant effort into
being helpful, whereas you are behaving like a ten-year-old bully.

Get lost, you anonymous twerp.

============== j-c ====== @ ====== purr . demon . co . uk ==============
Jack Campin: 11 Third Street, Newtongrange EH22 4PU, Midlothian, Scotland
<http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack/> for CD-ROMs and free | fax [phone]
stuff: Scottish music, food intolerance, & Mac logic fonts | mob [phone]

[Ike Milligan]

Post by Jack Campin - bogus address

Post by Krazy Kanuck

Post by t***@Yahoo.com
Walter, I've been detained but still plan on going through the rest of
the stock and the extra bass machines.

Gee Steve....looks like you were over at Tulio's place again and posting
with his laptop?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

From here, it looks like Steve was putting significant effort into
being helpful, whereas you are behaving like a ten-year-old bully.
Get lost, you anonymous twerp.

That's what Steve wants it to look like, just a sweet helpful guy. Helps
him further his nefarious dastardly agenda.

[Ike Milligan]

Post by Krazy Kanuck
Gee Steve....looks like you were over at Tulio's place again and posting
with his laptop?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

Post by w.d.
Hello Stephen,
Thanks for trying to help me,
Walter D.

Walter, I've been detained ...

[k***@gmail.com]

Hi,

I have the opportunity to buy an Paolo soprani special model super organ sumadija 140 bass
Are they any good? Is this the same bass system? After reading your story I got doubts....

Thanks,
Koen

[Mario Bruneau]

Post by j***@ntlworld.com

Post by Ike Milligan
A question from Australia. chromatic button accordion, dallape
organtone- cassotto,
special model sumadija N58. 6 row. He says he spoke to "Mr. Dallape" on
the phone about value.

Dallapé accordions are one of the first family businesses in the
accordion world. They still exist in the Italian city of Stradella, and
still make fine accordions. Mariano Dallapé, who founded the firm is

Yes, Dallapé family is still around and live in Stradella or near
Stradella but THEY DO NOT MAKE ACCORDIONS ANYMORE.

Post by j***@ntlworld.com
credited with introducing the Stradella Bass system, although this is
debatable. To say that he was an injured explosives expert by trade, he
did quite well making accordions in later life.
Mike O'R

[Gadjo]

Post by Mario Bruneau

Post by j***@ntlworld.com

Post by Ike Milligan
A question from Australia. chromatic button accordion, dallape
organtone- cassotto,
special model sumadija N58. 6 row. He says he spoke to "Mr. Dallape" on
the phone about value.

Dallapé accordions are one of the first family businesses in the
accordion world. They still exist in the Italian city of Stradella, and
still make fine accordions. Mariano Dallapé, who founded the firm is

Yes, Dallapé family is still around and live in Stradella or near
Stradella but THEY DO NOT MAKE ACCORDIONS ANYMORE.

Post by j***@ntlworld.com
credited with introducing the Stradella Bass system, although this is
debatable. To say that he was an injured explosives expert by trade, he
did quite well making accordions in later life.
Mike O'R

http://www.dallape-accordions.com/ <----- this is Dallapè's website (Yes
, it is DAllapè, with the "A").
Actual owner, mr. Amleto Dallapè, is very kind person, who answered a
couple of emails, I've sent to him.
Besides, Dallapè is the only accordion factory, which has always been
under control of the same family.
I don't know who makes parts for Dallapè today (i dont'think Guerrini,
because Guerrini is also assembling parts), but what I know is that
Dallapè was the last factory in Stradella to have his own wood artisans.
However, Dallapè accodions is very good also today, and is one of brands
which noticed less "loss of quality" in last 30 years.

For what concerns 6 rows 140 bass "Sumadija" models, the point is that a
lot of "fake" Dallapes were made in Serbia during last 30 years.
Serbians use to call this 6-rowed CBA "Dugmetara", and in the case of
Dallapè, they use to call them "Domaca Dalapa", what means "housemade
Dallapè", or something similar.
The best past-yugoslavian accordionists are playing italian made
Guerrinis or Dallapes (President-Superior and Organtone-Supermaestro
models), which in the PA version are superb instruments. I just can't
figure out how the same accordions in the CBA version could be junk (The
all-time best bosnian accordion player Jovica Petkovic plays on a
Dallape Dugmetara).
If someone found out a junk-Dallapè, i can think that it was a serbian
made accordion.
I personally own a Supermaestro from the '60s and could say that is a
great accordion, and even if it's 40 years old, it doesn't give me any
problem; keyboard is smooth even with the single rod system, bass
mechanics are fast and silent, and the sound is amazing.

Regards

David Cej

[alexrat]

Gadjo wrote: (snip)

Post by Gadjo
I personally own a Supermaestro from the '60s and could say that is a
great accordion, and even if it's 40 years old, it doesn't give me any
problem; keyboard is smooth even with the single rod system, bass
mechanics are fast and silent, and the sound is amazing.
David Cej

Hi David,

Completely off topic, David, excuse me. What style of music do you play
the most? 'Balkan'? Do you play on a PA or CBA?

Thanks,

BOba

[Gadjo]

Post by alexrat
Gadjo wrote: (snip)

Post by Gadjo
I personally own a Supermaestro from the '60s and could say that is a
great accordion, and even if it's 40 years old, it doesn't give me any
problem; keyboard is smooth even with the single rod system, bass
mechanics are fast and silent, and the sound is amazing.
David Cej

Hi David,
Completely off topic, David, excuse me. What style of music do you play
the most? 'Balkan'? Do you play on a PA or CBA?
Thanks,
BOba

I'm sorry, sometimes I lose myself into a too-big emphasized thoughts.
I play PA, and I play mostly Balkan & Klezmer style. However, I grew up
with Oberkrainer tunes (I always lived in Italy, but my family is
slovene like the polka king Slavko Avsenik ;)) and I like old-style
european swing as well (Gorni Kramer, Gus Viseur etc.).
I'm considering to move to C system CBA, but I'm still looking for a
good quality, used and small sized 5 rows instrument with "french
construction" (3 reedblocks for every 2 sets of reeds).

Regards

David

[Mario Bruneau]

Post by Gadjo
I'm considering to move to C system CBA, but I'm still looking for a
good quality, used and small sized 5 rows instrument with "french
construction" (3 reedblocks for every 2 sets of reeds).
Regards
David

Cavagnolo?

[w.d.]

Post by Gadjo

Post by Mario Bruneau

Post by j***@ntlworld.com

Post by Ike Milligan
A question from Australia. chromatic button accordion, dallape
organtone- cassotto,
special model sumadija N58. 6 row. He says he spoke to "Mr. Dallape" on
the phone about value.

Dallapé accordions are one of the first family businesses in the
accordion world. They still exist in the Italian city of Stradella, and
still make fine accordions. Mariano Dallapé, who founded the firm is

Yes, Dallapé family is still around and live in Stradella or near
Stradella but THEY DO NOT MAKE ACCORDIONS ANYMORE.

Post by j***@ntlworld.com
credited with introducing the Stradella Bass system, although this is
debatable. To say that he was an injured explosives expert by trade, he
did quite well making accordions in later life.
Mike O'R

http://www.dallape-accordions.com/ <----- this is Dallapè's website (Yes
, it is DAllapè, with the "A").
Actual owner, mr. Amleto Dallapè, is very kind person, who answered a
couple of emails, I've sent to him.
Besides, Dallapè is the only accordion factory, which has always been
under control of the same family.
I don't know who makes parts for Dallapè today (i dont'think Guerrini,
because Guerrini is also assembling parts), but what I know is that
Dallapè was the last factory in Stradella to have his own wood artisans.
However, Dallapè accodions is very good also today, and is one of brands
which noticed less "loss of quality" in last 30 years.
For what concerns 6 rows 140 bass "Sumadija" models, the point is that a
lot of "fake" Dallapes were made in Serbia during last 30 years.
Serbians use to call this 6-rowed CBA "Dugmetara", and in the case of
Dallapè, they use to call them "Domaca Dalapa", what means "housemade
Dallapè", or something similar.
The best past-yugoslavian accordionists are playing italian made
Guerrinis or Dallapes (President-Superior and Organtone-Supermaestro
models), which in the PA version are superb instruments. I just can't
figure out how the same accordions in the CBA version could be junk (The
all-time best bosnian accordion player Jovica Petkovic plays on a
Dallape Dugmetara).
If someone found out a junk-Dallapè, i can think that it was a serbian
made accordion.
I personally own a Supermaestro from the '60s and could say that is a
great accordion, and even if it's 40 years old, it doesn't give me any
problem; keyboard is smooth even with the single rod system, bass
mechanics are fast and silent, and the sound is amazing.
Regards
David Cej

This Samadija, that one lady left for me, truly looks like a
Presidential - Superior type accordion mad by Guerini. It has good
quality reed blocks on both sides, so I'm sure that is was made by
Dellape. It also has some Italian good quality reeds and on the right
side all reeds except few were replaced with Hohner reeds.

I'm not question the quality of the treble side, although the bellows
have many metal corners replaced that don't match exactly. That means
that Serbs didn't care or didn't know how to do the job correctly.
That also means that Dellape bellows did not have very good glue in
manufacturing of complete bellows.

I'm really question the mechanism of the bass machine in the Samadija.
and not the entire accordion. It's real junk as far as basses have
been designed and made. If this would be Serbian copy, it would have
the similar bass machine. Therefore isn't important who made it
originally, it important who designed and allowed production of that
junk.

I repeat - it's a real junk. It doesn't matter if this was done 50 or
60 years ago, junk design is a junk design. No good mechanical thought
went in to that whatsoever. This bass machine had 12 rods for root
basses and 12 rods for chords basses. The 12 rods of the root basses
were connected with the linkage with the chords rods. The place in bas
compartment was so tight. In order to fix the valves it was necessary
to take out all the wires, that this is nightmare for the repairman. If
this would have to go through approval of mechanical engineer inspector
that bass machine would never see the daylight. Very, very bad. Bad!
It's a shame that such an accordion with that kind of basses was
ever sold to unsuspected and "sophisticated" Serbian players. I just
don't believe that Serbs made such accordion and used metal lettering
"Dellape" on those accordions and Italian government didn't
interfere for infringement on behalf of Dellape.

You statement is only a smoke screen to cover failures of some Italians
accordion factory from the past. I would rather buy Chinese made 5
row Chromatic that waste my time on that junk. Truth is the truth,
and it has to be pointed out if this is Chinese or Italian or any
other accordion made in foreign country.

Enjoy it,
W.D.

[Gadjo]

Post by w.d.
This Samadija, that one lady left for me, truly looks like a
Presidential - Superior type accordion mad by Guerini. It has good
quality reed blocks on both sides, so I'm sure that is was made by
Dellape. It also has some Italian good quality reeds and on the right
side all reeds except few were replaced with Hohner reeds.
I'm not question the quality of the treble side, although the bellows
have many metal corners replaced that don't match exactly. That means
that Serbs didn't care or didn't know how to do the job correctly.
That also means that Dellape bellows did not have very good glue in
manufacturing of complete bellows.
I'm really question the mechanism of the bass machine in the Samadija.
and not the entire accordion. It's real junk as far as basses have
been designed and made. If this would be Serbian copy, it would have
the similar bass machine. Therefore isn't important who made it
originally, it important who designed and allowed production of that
junk.
I repeat - it's a real junk. It doesn't matter if this was done 50 or
60 years ago, junk design is a junk design. No good mechanical thought
went in to that whatsoever. This bass machine had 12 rods for root
basses and 12 rods for chords basses. The 12 rods of the root basses
were connected with the linkage with the chords rods. The place in bas
compartment was so tight. In order to fix the valves it was necessary
to take out all the wires, that this is nightmare for the repairman. If
this would have to go through approval of mechanical engineer inspector
that bass machine would never see the daylight. Very, very bad. Bad!
It's a shame that such an accordion with that kind of basses was
ever sold to unsuspected and "sophisticated" Serbian players. I just
don't believe that Serbs made such accordion and used metal lettering
"Dellape" on those accordions and Italian government didn't
interfere for infringement on behalf of Dellape.
You statement is only a smoke screen to cover failures of some Italians
accordion factory from the past. I would rather buy Chinese made 5
row Chromatic that waste my time on that junk. Truth is the truth,
and it has to be pointed out if this is Chinese or Italian or any
other accordion made in foreign country.
Enjoy it,
W.D.

From what I know, in the majority of accordions, to reach the valves is
required to unmount all the bass buttons; this is true for the Dallapè
as well as for my Crucianelli (also mid '60s), as well as it was in my
Super Paolo V/V (mid '70s) and in many other accordions.
I know also that in some accordions (is this the so-called "Scandalli
bass machine"?) all buttons can be removed together, without pulling
them apart one by one.
I agree with you that removing (and yet more putting they back in
place)key by key requires a lot of patience and can be frustrating, I
also did it once and I remember it wasn't relaxing ;-)
However, italian government didn't made nothing for accordions, and the
market sector is still in big crisis. Italian accordion industry lives
mostly on exportations. You americans had (have?) the A.R.I.A., even the
USSR had his own accordions r&d institute... here in Italy something
similar will never happen :-(
Besides, I suppose that a 140 bass section is more "inflated" with
basses and mechanisms as a "standard" 120 bass one: the place is the
same, but there are an extra row.
I'm not a professional repairman, but it sounds strange that you
consider junk the bass section of an always well-known and respected
brand (here in Italy, Dallapè is - or better, was - considered as the
Ferrari of accordions). It's also strange the unalignment of the bellows
corners (are the bellows original?). Just try to check in the interior
of the bass side, near the reedblocks: Dallapè have a fire engraving
"Dallapè", or "Fabbrica Armoniche Dallapè e Figlio" or something.
Plus, original Dallapè reeds are engraved "Dallapè".
Finally, consider that today a lot of accordions in Italy, even if they
carry a different brand name, they are the same accordion, just with
different "metal lettering".

Sorry for my bad english, I hope you can understand my thoughts.

Best regards

David

[s***@neo.rr.com]

Post by Gadjo

Post by w.d.
This Samadija, that one lady left for me, truly looks like a
Presidential - Superior type accordion mad by Guerini. It has good
quality reed blocks on both sides, so I'm sure that is was made by
Dellape. It also has some Italian good quality reeds and on the right
side all reeds except few were replaced with Hohner reeds.
I'm not question the quality of the treble side, although the bellows
have many metal corners replaced that don't match exactly. That means
that Serbs didn't care or didn't know how to do the job correctly.
That also means that Dellape bellows did not have very good glue in
manufacturing of complete bellows.
I'm really question the mechanism of the bass machine in the Samadija.
and not the entire accordion. It's real junk as far as basses have
been designed and made. If this would be Serbian copy, it would have
the similar bass machine. Therefore isn't important who made it
originally, it important who designed and allowed production of that
junk.
I repeat - it's a real junk. It doesn't matter if this was done 50 or
60 years ago, junk design is a junk design. No good mechanical thought
went in to that whatsoever. This bass machine had 12 rods for root
basses and 12 rods for chords basses. The 12 rods of the root basses
were connected with the linkage with the chords rods. The place in bas
compartment was so tight. In order to fix the valves it was necessary
to take out all the wires, that this is nightmare for the repairman. If
this would have to go through approval of mechanical engineer inspector
that bass machine would never see the daylight. Very, very bad. Bad!
It's a shame that such an accordion with that kind of basses was
ever sold to unsuspected and "sophisticated" Serbian players. I just
don't believe that Serbs made such accordion and used metal lettering
"Dellape" on those accordions and Italian government didn't
interfere for infringement on behalf of Dellape.
You statement is only a smoke screen to cover failures of some Italians
accordion factory from the past. I would rather buy Chinese made 5
row Chromatic that waste my time on that junk. Truth is the truth,
and it has to be pointed out if this is Chinese or Italian or any
other accordion made in foreign country.
Enjoy it,
W.D.

From what I know, in the majority of accordions, to reach the valves is
required to unmount all the bass buttons; this is true for the Dallapè
as well as for my Crucianelli (also mid '60s), as well as it was in my
Super Paolo V/V (mid '70s) and in many other accordions.
I know also that in some accordions (is this the so-called "Scandalli
bass machine"?) all buttons can be removed together, without pulling
them apart one by one.
I agree with you that removing (and yet more putting they back in
place)key by key requires a lot of patience and can be frustrating, I
also did it once and I remember it wasn't relaxing ;-)
However, italian government didn't made nothing for accordions, and the
market sector is still in big crisis. Italian accordion industry lives
mostly on exportations. You americans had (have?) the A.R.I.A., even the
USSR had his own accordions r&d institute... here in Italy something
similar will never happen :-(

The Italian accordion industry had at one time the F.I.A.S. that
functioned in the same way as the A.R.I.A. Apparently it dissolved.

--
Stephen J. Navoyosky

Post by Gadjo
Besides, I suppose that a 140 bass section is more "inflated" with
basses and mechanisms as a "standard" 120 bass one: the place is the
same, but there are an extra row.
I'm not a professional repairman, but it sounds strange that you
consider junk the bass section of an always well-known and respected
brand (here in Italy, Dallapè is - or better, was - considered as the
Ferrari of accordions). It's also strange the unalignment of the bellows
corners (are the bellows original?). Just try to check in the interior
of the bass side, near the reedblocks: Dallapè have a fire engraving
"Dallapè", or "Fabbrica Armoniche Dallapè e Figlio" or something.
Plus, original Dallapè reeds are engraved "Dallapè".
Finally, consider that today a lot of accordions in Italy, even if they
carry a different brand name, they are the same accordion, just with
different "metal lettering".
Sorry for my bad english, I hope you can understand my thoughts.
Best regards
David

The original Dallape' was indeed an outstanding instrument and as you
have outlined in some detail. They were a technician's nightmare at
times (like the old Hohner's) in that their treble keyboard rods were
constructed with certain overlaps that made it hard to replace.
Since the instrument's fibble rod could be removed/replaced at either
end to allow for workability at either end without the entire keyboard
removal, it was better to remove the rod from the chin area and work
from that side for entire keyboard rebuilding.
I have a rebuilt Dallape' Organtone Artist for sale (LMH) that is mint
all the way....All original Dallape' reeds. For the price buyers, it's
$2500.

--
Stephen J. Navoyosky

***@neo.rr.com

[w.d.]

Post by Gadjo
I'm not a professional repairman, but it sounds strange that you
consider junk the bass section of an always well-known and respected
brand (here in Italy, Dallapè is - or better, was - considered as the
Ferrari of accordions). It's also strange the unalignment of the bellows
corners (are the bellows original?). Just try to check in the interior
of the bass side, near the reedblocks: Dallapè have a fire engraving
"Dallapè", or "Fabbrica Armoniche Dallapè e Figlio" or something.
Plus, original Dallapè reeds are engraved "Dallapè".
Finally, consider that today a lot of accordions in Italy, even if they
carry a different brand name, they are the same accordion, just with
different "metal lettering".
Sorry for my bad english, I hope you can understand my thoughts.
Best regards

Dave, your English is perfect for me, and I would say betterthan mine.
I appreciate that you are taking part in this discussion.
I have seen and worked on many different kind of basses and I speak
from experience. The bass system in that Dellape CBA Organtone, 140
buttons and 7 rows is the most awkward design of the bass system that I
even have seen or work on it. My wife believes in me the best. She says
that, if I can fix it nobody can't. I was ready to rebuild that thing
my own way. I would be able to do it, but the compartment of bass
machine is rounded inside and doesn't allow to extend the widths of
root bass rods and the chords rods. If this would be possible, I would
be able to put short piston guides for all the root basses instead of
wires going around each other in different directions. I made lay out
of it using color code, and this is a mess even if you look on enlarged
paper drawing. The real thing looks even more confusing. I spend on
it a week and find out that there is not enough space between the root
basses rods and the chords rods, where I would be able to put
piston guides that would work freely not touching parts from chord
section.

This system works opposite to Stradella. In Stradella, pistons from
the root basses go to the bottom to engage rods for root basses. In
this Organtone CBA system basses are operated by the single wires
connection individually engaging the rods directly. So there are 60
wires that are tight up by the loop to every rod with no guides to
secure smooth movement.

It could be easily changed in the factory, if they would liquidate
the rounded bass compartment. Inside, make bigger opening where cover
is, and a remove more wood from rounded glued wood from the bass
compartments. Sorry, my man, that man who designed those basses had
no idea that somebody would talk about it 50 years later. As SN said
that they make still the same machine> if his is so, they should
consider to end this nightmare fro many people in the Balkans who
use that style of basses in CBA accordions. Well, these accordions
weren't made to last 50 years.

As I see from perspective, that this machine was braking
constantly. The previous owner must spend more on repair than on
that accordion itself. the only good thing they go out of this
accordion were original l reeds that they substituted with Hohner's
reeds.

Enjoy it,
W.D.

[s***@neo.rr.com]

w.d. wrote:
(snip)

Post by w.d.
This system works opposite to Stradella. In Stradella, pistons from
the root basses go to the bottom to engage rods for root basses. In
this Organtone CBA system basses are operated by the single wires
connection individually engaging the rods directly. So there are 60
wires that are tight up by the loop to every rod with no guides to
secure smooth movement.
It could be easily changed in the factory, if they would liquidate
the rounded bass compartment. Inside, make bigger opening where cover
is, and a remove more wood from rounded glued wood from the bass
compartments. Sorry, my man, that man who designed those basses had
no idea that somebody would talk about it 50 years later. As SN said
that they make still the same machine> if his is so, they should
consider to end this nightmare fro many people in the Balkans who
use that style of basses in CBA accordions. Well, these accordions
weren't made to last 50 years.

(snip)

Walter, from your description that doesn't sound like the Dallape' we
knew from the past. Is it possible for you to take a photo(s) of that
bass machine and email it to me, or place it on some website for
viewing? If you email it to me by jpeg or gif, I can enlarge it to
fit my large screen.
Yes, a Dallape' can last for a longer time than 50 years if cared for.
But that design is not what is known for Dallape'. I suspect it's a
fake.

--
Stephen J. Navoyosky

***@neo.rr.com

[Ike Milligan]

Post by alexrat
(snip)

Post by w.d.
This system works opposite to Stradella. In Stradella, pistons from
the root basses go to the bottom to engage rods for root basses. In
this Organtone CBA system basses are operated by the single wires
connection individually engaging the rods directly. So there are 60
wires that are tight up by the loop to every rod with no guides to
secure smooth movement.
It could be easily changed in the factory, if they would liquidate
the rounded bass compartment. Inside, make bigger opening where cover
is, and a remove more wood from rounded glued wood from the bass
compartments. Sorry, my man, that man who designed those basses had
no idea that somebody would talk about it 50 years later. As SN said
that they make still the same machine> if his is so, they should
consider to end this nightmare fro many people in the Balkans who
use that style of basses in CBA accordions. Well, these accordions
weren't made to last 50 years.

(snip)
Walter, from your description that doesn't sound like the Dallape' we
knew from the past. Is it possible for you to take a photo(s) of that
bass machine and email it to me, or place it on some website for
viewing? If you email it to me by jpeg or gif, I can enlarge it to
fit my large screen.
Yes, a Dallape' can last for a longer time than 50 years if cared for.
But that design is not what is known for Dallape'. I suspect it's a
fake.
--
Stephen J. Navoyosky

Could it be a converter?

[w.d.]

***@neo.rr.com wrote:
X>X>

Post by s***@neo.rr.com
Walter, from your description that doesn't sound like the Dallape' we
knew from the past. Is it possible for you to take a photo(s) of that
bass machine and email it to me, or place it on some website for
viewing? If you email it to me by jpeg or gif, I can enlarge it to
fit my large screen.
Yes, a Dallape' can last for a longer time than 50 years if cared for.
But that design is not what is known for Dallape'. I suspect it's a
fake.
--
Stephen J. Navoyosky

Ike and Steve,

I'm providing rather large combination of pictures for the view. So
it takes a while to load it.

1. Picture of Dallape CBA
2. Picture of bass machine from the top view.
3. Picture of the skeleton of bass machine with rods not romoveed as
yet.
The wire pistons: short for basses and combination for chords on the
side on the tray. I could deal with long aluminum piostons, but I
didn't have time or patience to mess arund with wires.


I took it apart again after fourth time trial. Again, after fall on
the lay out, I gave up on it. NOw, I took everything apart, even the
aluminum reed block plate and registers.

Ike, This is not a convertor.

Bellow is the link to the large file. Wait till it loads.

Loading Image...

I will remove this file after a week or so.

Best Regards,
W.D.

[Mario Bruneau]

Post by w.d.
X>X>

Post by s***@neo.rr.com
Walter, from your description that doesn't sound like the Dallape' we
knew from the past. Is it possible for you to take a photo(s) of that
bass machine and email it to me, or place it on some website for
viewing? If you email it to me by jpeg or gif, I can enlarge it to
fit my large screen.
Yes, a Dallape' can last for a longer time than 50 years if cared for.
But that design is not what is known for Dallape'. I suspect it's a
fake.
--
Stephen J. Navoyosky

Ike and Steve,
I'm providing rather large combination of pictures for the view. So
it takes a while to load it.
1. Picture of Dallape CBA
2. Picture of bass machine from the top view.
3. Picture of the skeleton of bass machine with rods not romoveed as
yet.
The wire pistons: short for basses and combination for chords on the
side on the tray. I could deal with long aluminum piostons, but I
didn't have time or patience to mess arund with wires.
I took it apart again after fourth time trial. Again, after fall on
the lay out, I gave up on it. NOw, I took everything apart, even the
aluminum reed block plate and registers.
Ike, This is not a convertor.
Bellow is the link to the large file. Wait till it loads.
http://users.snip.net/~wjd40/trans/del.jpg
I will remove this file after a week or so.
Best Regards,
W.D.

Whoa! What a mess! Did this thing ever work?

Dallapè was one of the best Italian accordion if not THE best. M. Frank
Pavane here in Montréal as always played on Dallapè and I once hear his
playing at a wedding gig. He was playing in one hall and I was playing
in another hall of the same building. Boy his accordion sounded
soooooooo nice. He play mostly Jazz standards and pop music and no
musette. His Dalappè had a dry tuning. That was at least 15 years ago
and I remember wanting to buy a Dalappè then.

[s***@neo.rr.com]

Post by w.d.
X>X>

Post by s***@neo.rr.com
Walter, from your description that doesn't sound like the Dallape' we
knew from the past. Is it possible for you to take a photo(s) of that
bass machine and email it to me, or place it on some website for
viewing? If you email it to me by jpeg or gif, I can enlarge it to
fit my large screen.
Yes, a Dallape' can last for a longer time than 50 years if cared for.
But that design is not what is known for Dallape'. I suspect it's a
fake.
--
Stephen J. Navoyosky

Ike and Steve,
I'm providing rather large combination of pictures for the view. So
it takes a while to load it.
1. Picture of Dallape CBA
2. Picture of bass machine from the top view.
3. Picture of the skeleton of bass machine with rods not romoveed as
yet.
The wire pistons: short for basses and combination for chords on the
side on the tray. I could deal with long aluminum piostons, but I
didn't have time or patience to mess arund with wires.
I took it apart again after fourth time trial. Again, after fall on
the lay out, I gave up on it. NOw, I took everything apart, even the
aluminum reed block plate and registers.
Ike, This is not a convertor.
Bellow is the link to the large file. Wait till it loads.
http://users.snip.net/~wjd40/trans/del.jpg
I will remove this file after a week or so.
Best Regards,
W.D.

It would have been better to email me those separately or place them on
your site individually. I copied them but it downloaded as one photo,
so my observation was limited. That's a much later Dallape' and from
what I see could have been made by Guerrini but I would think it was
late Dallape' design to place the bass pipes above the chord pipes. The
so-called wires between the button and the piston are there to prevent
binding of the piston and to free the button action. It's a good design
and one used in bassetti accordions to link duplicating row pistons. I
can't see why you are having difficulties with this cartucetti unless
you have the pistons mixed up. But that's just a time factor to
organize them. When removing the pistons, keep the 'wires' intact with
them. When adjusting the buttons you'll need the button straightener
working with a bass bender (holder-support) to adjust the action. It's
not much different than what you've worked on before...and far easier
than a Scandalli mechanism with its wires.
---
Stephen J. Navoyosky

***@neo.rr.com

[w.d.]

That's a much later Dallape' and from

Post by s***@neo.rr.com
what I see could have been made by Guerrini but I would think it was
late Dallape' design to place the bass pipes above the chord pipes. The
so-called wires between the button and the piston are there to prevent
binding of the piston and to free the button action. It's a good design
and one used in bassetti accordions to link duplicating row pistons. I
can't see why you are having difficulties with this cartucetti unless
you have the pistons mixed up. But that's just a time factor to
organize them. When removing the pistons, keep the 'wires' intact with
them. When adjusting the buttons you'll need the button straightener
working with a bass bender (holder-support) to adjust the action. It's
not much different than what you've worked on before...and far easier
than a Scandalli mechanism with its wires.
---
Stephen J. Navoyosky

Steve, Thanks for advice. I think, I will try to start that thing all
over again soonest I get more time. I still think that this is very bad
and hard design for fixing purposes. I didn't play it when the basses
worked good, so I don't know, but the treble side is working fine. It
could be used only for right hand for practice. I have seen a couple of
good French musette plyers on video that don't use the basses at all.

I'm also ready to sell this accordion "as is" to anyone who wants to
fix it for himself or for sale. I have 3 row bayan and I don't need
this one badly. Anyone interested in it? Give me an offer that it
would cover at least the cost of new Hohner's treble reeds. Remember,
the bass machine is in "the cake" stage." It's LMMH with "L" in
Chamber.

Here is the link to all pictures files from - dalA.jpg to dalH.jpg.

Loading Image...

To see the rest of those pictures replace every time for viewing the
dalA.jpg with new files - from dalA.jpg to dalH.jpg.(7 files)

I will remove /Dallape/ file folder after a few days from my web space.
This folder takes up 2.06 MB and I have only 5 MB space.

Enjoy it,
W.D.

[s***@neo.rr.com]

Post by s***@neo.rr.com
That's a much later Dallape' and from

Post by s***@neo.rr.com
what I see could have been made by Guerrini but I would think it was
late Dallape' design to place the bass pipes above the chord pipes. The
so-called wires between the button and the piston are there to prevent
binding of the piston and to free the button action. It's a good design
and one used in bassetti accordions to link duplicating row pistons. I
can't see why you are having difficulties with this cartucetti unless
you have the pistons mixed up. But that's just a time factor to
organize them. When removing the pistons, keep the 'wires' intact with
them. When adjusting the buttons you'll need the button straightener
working with a bass bender (holder-support) to adjust the action. It's
not much different than what you've worked on before...and far easier
than a Scandalli mechanism with its wires.
---
Stephen J. Navoyosky

Steve, Thanks for advice. I think, I will try to start that thing all
over again soonest I get more time. I still think that this is very bad
and hard design for fixing purposes. I didn't play it when the basses
worked good, so I don't know, but the treble side is working fine. It
could be used only for right hand for practice. I have seen a couple of
good French musette plyers on video that don't use the basses at all.
I'm also ready to sell this accordion "as is" to anyone who wants to
fix it for himself or for sale. I have 3 row bayan and I don't need
this one badly. Anyone interested in it? Give me an offer that it
would cover at least the cost of new Hohner's treble reeds. Remember,
the bass machine is in "the cake" stage." It's LMMH with "L" in
Chamber.
Here is the link to all pictures files from - dalA.jpg to dalH.jpg.
http://users.snip.net/~wjd40/dallape/dalA.jpg
To see the rest of those pictures replace every time for viewing the
dalA.jpg with new files - from dalA.jpg to dalH.jpg.(7 files)
I will remove /Dallape/ file folder after a few days from my web space.
This folder takes up 2.06 MB and I have only 5 MB space.
Enjoy it,
W.D.

Thank you Walter. I hope you can now walk through it with a new
approach. Just remember that you'll have two adjustments to make on
each button. The piston for complete freedom from binding in the slot,
and the button for complete freedom from binding in it's hole. The
'wire' will have to be held so that there is freedom of play at the
junction of the piston. Just take them one at a time and make sure of
the action and that it's the same for each. When you are finished I'm
sure you will be pleased with your efforts. BTW, use bending tools only
on this process.
---
Stephen J. Navoyosky

***@neo.rr.com

[w.d.]

***@neo.rr.com wrote:
X

Post by s***@neo.rr.com
Thank you Walter. I hope you can now walk through it with a new
approach. Just remember that you'll have two adjustments to make on
each button. The piston for complete freedom from binding in the slot,
and the button for complete freedom from binding in it's hole. The
'wire' will have to be held so that there is freedom of play at the
junction of the piston. Just take them one at a time and make sure of
the action and that it's the same for each. When you are finished I'm
sure you will be pleased with your efforts. BTW, use bending tools only
on this process.
---
Stephen J. Navoyosky

Steve, I would do it again working with those wires, however my
experience with it indicates, that I better think about something
else. I don't like the wires used for pistons. Period. At least in my
opinion it's very bad design but I might be too much impatient while
working with wires.

You gave me little push and encouragement and I believe that I can
finish this project one way or another.

I'm looking for complete old style DeLuca accordion from Milwaukee 120
bass full size but junk bass machine that has similar features as the
machine that I'm showing on the attached picture. I'm especially eager
to get piston guides and old pistons from the DeLuca bass machine. I
have one but this is not enough for his project. I will destroy that
DeLuca very old accordion that could be fixed for the sake of the
Dellape, if I get De Luca bas machine part. I wuil design completley
new bass sytem fro the Dallape, the will never make for me or somebody
else more problem.

I need more parts to make completely different design that this Dallape
has. Anyone in this group who has parts form the old DeLuca junk bass
machine is welcome to help me.

Here is the link to the DeLuca bass machine picture file that shows how
those parts looks.

Loading Image...

Enjoy it,
W.D.

[s***@neo.rr.com]

Post by w.d.
Steve, I would do it again working with those wires, however my
experience with it indicates, that I better think about something
else. I don't like the wires used for pistons. Period. At least in my
opinion it's very bad design but I might be too much impatient while
working with wires.
You gave me little push and encouragement and I believe that I can
finish this project one way or another.
I'm looking for complete old style DeLuca accordion from Milwaukee 120
bass full size but junk bass machine that has similar features as the
machine that I'm showing on the attached picture. I'm especially eager
to get piston guides and old pistons from the DeLuca bass machine. I
have one but this is not enough for his project. I will destroy that
DeLuca very old accordion that could be fixed for the sake of the
Dellape, if I get De Luca bas machine part. I wuil design completley
new bass sytem fro the Dallape, the will never make for me or somebody
else more problem.
I need more parts to make completely different design that this Dallape
has. Anyone in this group who has parts form the old DeLuca junk bass
machine is welcome to help me.
Here is the link to the DeLuca bass machine picture file that shows how
those parts looks.
http://users.snip.net/~wjd40/trans/deluca.jpg
Enjoy it,
W.D.

Walter, I know exactly the design. I'll check my shop and see if I
still have one. If I do, you can have it, paying only the shipping
costs.
LoDuca was a stencil name and was not a factory.
---
Stephen J. Navoyosky

***@neo.rr.com

[gazzapt]

Actual owner, mr. Amleto Dallapè, is very kind person, who answered a
couple of emails, I've sent to him.
Besides, Dallapè is the only accordion factory, which has always been
under control of the same family.


Wrong.
Cooperfisa is under the same family
regards
Gary B