the Jo Privat sound

[M***@gmail.com]

I recently came across the Jo Privat CD "Manouche Partie." I'm almost
completely unfamiliar with accordions, but I love that sound, and am
curious how, and with what sort of instrument, he achieved it.

I know it's a chromatic button accordion; from the photos, it looks as
if it has four rows (but that photo is pretty small).

I see there are lots of discussions of "tunings" on this newsgroup.

From the album liner notes and the sound, I infer that Privat used a

"dry" tuning; am I correct in that, or completely misguided?

Specific questions:

1. Who made the accordion Jo Privat played, and does anyone now make a
comparable instrument?
2. To get that sound, will I have to buy a French-built instrument, or
will Italian or German instruments do? (or is it possible there's a
comparable maker in Quebec?)
3. What are the technical specs for Privat's instrument (number of
rows, buttons, basses, etc.)?
4. What was the Privat tuning?
5. What are the best entry level chromatic button accordions for a
person who wants to purchase a new instrument?
6. In terms of used instruments, I've read the online buying guide at
www.hmtrad.com; are there other sites I should consult?

I hope I'm not unnecessarily duplicating a recent discussion; if so, I
thank you for your patience with a tyro.

[s***@bisco.com]

I have that same CD: "Manouche Partie." I wish there were more of
Privat's albums available here in the USA.

First, the fact. The accordion Jo Privat is holding in the photograph
is a Fratelli Crosio chromatic button accordion, 120 bass. This is
visible in the picture. Perhaps a NG member who is a Fratelli Crosio
fan could identify the model.

How is it "tuned?" Good question.

From the account in the liner notes on how and when the songs were

recorded, one might conclude that Privat played the same accordion on
all tracks. This is useful to keep in mind when trying to figure out
which switches he was using on specific songs.

The liner notes also say that Privat "...abandoned the 'Musette Tuning'
in favour of a purer sound..." However, some of the songs on this
album are played on an accordion with a definite 'Musette Tuning' that
is not even close to the dry sound I used to have on my Giulietti.
Listen to 'Valse des niglos,' the switch or register played is in no
way dry.

If you like Privat's music, there is at least one book (20 Titres)
available:
http://www.di-arezzo.co.uk/detail_notice.php?no_article=BEUSC00115

With kindest regards,

Steven

5-row CBA C-system

[M***@gmail.com]

Steven,

Thanks very much! I hear what you you mean on "Valse des niglos!" Of
course, for someone like me, with no real frame of reference, it's hard
to know what "dry" versus "musette" sounds like, but there's no
question that first chorus sounds like the definitions of "musette"
tuning I've read; "Song d'automne" and "Les deux guitares" also have
passages that don't sound "dry" at all. .

Will different switches or registers on the same accordion differ in
their tuning? It appears to me that some registers might employ
multiple reeds, in which case they might be wet, while other registers
might employ only a single reed (so the tuning issue would be moot).
And is it possible in the case of a three reed instrument for two of
them might be in unison, while the third is tuned out?

Thanks for the tip on the sheet music!

I also found this website, which has a catalogue of pieces that can be
viewed:

http://www.universelles.com/catalogue.php?fonction=artiste&artiste_id=50&role_id=3

And since you play a 5 row CBA and like Jo Privat, what's your opinion
on the question about whether French accordions are uniquely suited to
this music?

Marty

Post by s***@bisco.com
I have that same CD: "Manouche Partie." I wish there were more of
Privat's albums available here in the USA.
First, the fact. The accordion Jo Privat is holding in the photograph
is a Fratelli Crosio chromatic button accordion, 120 bass. This is
visible in the picture. Perhaps a NG member who is a Fratelli Crosio
fan could identify the model.
How is it "tuned?" Good question.

From the account in the liner notes on how and when the songs were

recorded, one might conclude that Privat played the same accordion on
all tracks. This is useful to keep in mind when trying to figure out
which switches he was using on specific songs.
The liner notes also say that Privat "...abandoned the 'Musette Tuning'
in favour of a purer sound..." However, some of the songs on this
album are played on an accordion with a definite 'Musette Tuning' that
is not even close to the dry sound I used to have on my Giulietti.
Listen to 'Valse des niglos,' the switch or register played is in no
way dry.
If you like Privat's music, there is at least one book (20 Titres)
http://www.di-arezzo.co.uk/detail_notice.php?no_article=BEUSC00115
With kindest regards,
Steven
5-row CBA C-system

[s***@bisco.com]

Dear Marty,

Thank you very much for the link!

Post by M***@gmail.com
Will different switches or registers on the same accordion differ in
their tuning? It appears to me that some registers might employ
multiple reeds, in which case they might be wet, while other registers
might employ only a single reed (so the tuning issue would be moot).
And is it possible in the case of a three reed instrument for two of
them might be in unison, while the third is tuned out?

Yes! The "musette" sound is caused by at least two reeds playing in
unison with one of the reeds slightly detuned. There have been MANY
postings, discussions, and debates on "musette" tuning here on the NG.


If the accordion has one detuned set of reeds, it will have switches
that give a "musette" sound and switches that give the dry sound. In
fact, the PanJet 45 was advertised to be "2 accordions in one" since
its treble registers were arranged such that the master switch gave you
a dry sound. There were maybe two switches that gave the accordion
player the musette sound. It was a nice instrument (I used to play one
20+ years ago).

Depending on whether you have the single octave setup (MMML) or the
double octave setup (HMML) you still have several good dry registers on
your accordion (organ, bandonion, clarinet, basson, harmonium). One
neat thing you can do that is very simple is to start the song using a
dry register and switch to the musette register. The contrast is
breath-taking.

Post by M***@gmail.com
And since you play a 5 row CBA and like Jo Privat, what's your opinion
on the question about whether French accordions are uniquely suited to
this music?

I would have to say yes, because of the diminished chord. Privat (as
well as Murena, Prud'Homme, et al.) used diminished chords and scales
in many of his compositions. Diminished chords and scales are easier
to do on a CBA than a PA.

With kindest regards,

Steven

5-row CBA, C-system

[Pukovnik]

Post by M***@gmail.com
I recently came across the Jo Privat CD "Manouche Partie." I'm almost
completely unfamiliar with accordions, but I love that sound, and am
curious how, and with what sort of instrument, he achieved it.

I think it is "Fratelli Crosio Musette 120".

Post by M***@gmail.com
I know it's a chromatic button accordion; from the photos, it looks as
if it has four rows (but that photo is pretty small).

Most French players use accordions with four rows, but fourth row is just
rarely utilised.

Post by M***@gmail.com
I see there are lots of discussions of "tunings" on this newsgroup.

From the album liner notes and the sound, I infer that Privat used a

"dry" tuning; am I correct in that, or completely misguided?

Privat most often uses wet (but not extremely wet) tuning.

Post by M***@gmail.com
1. Who made the accordion Jo Privat played, and does anyone now make a
comparable instrument?

The best accordions for musette are:

Fratelli Crosio: Mini Musette, Mini Musette 120 and Professionnel 4.
(www.fratellicrosio.com)
Cavagnolo: Bal Musette (www.cavagnolo.com)
Piermaria: P/318L
Maugein: I am not sure for exact model because they dont have a site with
models listed (***@wanadoo.fr)

The prices of those accordions are above $7000.

I have Fratelli Crosio Professionnel 4 tuned very wet. Check your e-mail to
hear my accordion and to see the picture of it.

Post by M***@gmail.com
2. To get that sound, will I have to buy a French-built instrument, or
will Italian or German instruments do? (or is it possible there's a
comparable maker in Quebec?)

Buy any accordion from my previous list and you won't regret. I personally
prefer Fratelli Crosio.

Post by M***@gmail.com
3. What are the technical specs for Privat's instrument (number of
rows, buttons, basses, etc.)?

I dont have this particular CD to tell you that but probably it has 64 (or
68) treble keys in 4 rows and 96 (or 120) bass keys.

Post by M***@gmail.com
4. What was the Privat tuning?

This is wet musette tuning but Mario Bruneau can tell you more about it.

Post by M***@gmail.com
5. What are the best entry level chromatic button accordions for a
person who wants to purchase a new instrument?

Any entry level accordion from Fratelli Crosio, Cavagnolo, Piermaria and
Maugein will do, but the sound is not the same as professional.

Post by M***@gmail.com
6. In terms of used instruments, I've read the online buying guide at
www.hmtrad.com; are there other sites I should consult?

Forget buying guides. Ike Milligan is the right person for all questions
regarding used accordions.


Regard,

Damir

[Mario Bruneau]

Hi all,

Privat always played on a french CBA.

Piermaria and Fratelli Crosio make accordions for the french market. Cavagnolo and
Maugein are typical french accordion makers and Cavagnolo is my favourite.

Privat use the "dry" musette. It is not a complete "dry" tuning like we understand
the expression in US but compare to the "old" very wet musette tuning, Privat and
most modern french musette players use the "dry" modern musette sound.

The modern dry musette tuning is set to a maximum 2 beat/sec wetness for A440. It
is the musette tuning I use on my Italian Brandoni accordion altought I don't get
Privat's sound because I use a "regular" Italian accordion plus it is a piano
accordion (PA).

The french musette sound is acheived (entre autre) by nailing the reeds instead of
waxing them like the "regular" Italian accordions. Like Damir say, you can't go
wrong with those names if you want the french musette sound.

There are no chromatic accordion makers in Québec. Only diatonic.

To get a used french CBA accordion I'd guess you will have to make a trip to Paris
for those accordions are not so familiar here in North America. Ike Milligan can
help you but I doubt he has a lot of them. Make sure you don't buy a "regular"
Italian box.

Good luck

PS I will be presenting my Accordion Multimedia Conference at Montmagny next september.

http://www.mariobruneau.com/conference.html

IMPORTANT! SVP enlever NO...SPAM de l'adresse de retour pour répondre
IMPORTANT! PLEASE remove NO...SPAM from the return adress to reply

Mario Bruneau
Répondre à / reply to : ***@cgocable.ca
819 843 3852
http://www.mariobruneau.com

Post by M***@gmail.com
I recently came across the Jo Privat CD "Manouche Partie." I'm almost
completely unfamiliar with accordions, but I love that sound, and am
curious how, and with what sort of instrument, he achieved it.
I know it's a chromatic button accordion; from the photos, it looks as
if it has four rows (but that photo is pretty small).
I see there are lots of discussions of "tunings" on this newsgroup.

From the album liner notes and the sound, I infer that Privat used a

"dry" tuning; am I correct in that, or completely misguided?
1. Who made the accordion Jo Privat played, and does anyone now make a
comparable instrument?
2. To get that sound, will I have to buy a French-built instrument, or
will Italian or German instruments do? (or is it possible there's a
comparable maker in Quebec?)
3. What are the technical specs for Privat's instrument (number of
rows, buttons, basses, etc.)?
4. What was the Privat tuning?
5. What are the best entry level chromatic button accordions for a
person who wants to purchase a new instrument?
6. In terms of used instruments, I've read the online buying guide at
www.hmtrad.com; are there other sites I should consult?
I hope I'm not unnecessarily duplicating a recent discussion; if so, I
thank you for your patience with a tyro.

[M***@gmail.com]

Dear Mario,

Thanks very much for sharing your expertise (here and in the Crosio
thread). I have hopes of making it to Montreal sometime this year (I
recently got a copy of the cookbook from Pied du cochon

(French: http://www.restaurantaupieddecochon.ca/homef.htm
English: http://www.restaurantaupieddecochon.ca/homee.htm }

and hope to get there for a meal and to hear some music sometime soon!

Marty

Post by Mario Bruneau
Hi all,
Privat always played on a french CBA.
Piermaria and Fratelli Crosio make accordions for the french market. Cavagnolo and
Maugein are typical french accordion makers and Cavagnolo is my favourite.
Privat use the "dry" musette. It is not a complete "dry" tuning like we understand
the expression in US but compare to the "old" very wet musette tuning, Privat and
most modern french musette players use the "dry" modern musette sound.
The modern dry musette tuning is set to a maximum 2 beat/sec wetness for A440. It
is the musette tuning I use on my Italian Brandoni accordion altought I don't get
Privat's sound because I use a "regular" Italian accordion plus it is a piano
accordion (PA).
The french musette sound is acheived (entre autre) by nailing the reeds instead of
waxing them like the "regular" Italian accordions. Like Damir say, you can't go
wrong with those names if you want the french musette sound.
There are no chromatic accordion makers in Québec. Only diatonic.
To get a used french CBA accordion I'd guess you will have to make a trip to Paris
for those accordions are not so familiar here in North America. Ike Milligan can
help you but I doubt he has a lot of them. Make sure you don't buy a "regular"
Italian box.
Good luck
PS I will be presenting my Accordion Multimedia Conference at Montmagny next september.
http://www.mariobruneau.com/conference.html
IMPORTANT! SVP enlever NO...SPAM de l'adresse de retour pour répondre
IMPORTANT! PLEASE remove NO...SPAM from the return adress to reply
Mario Bruneau
819 843 3852
http://www.mariobruneau.com

Post by M***@gmail.com
I recently came across the Jo Privat CD "Manouche Partie." I'm almost
completely unfamiliar with accordions, but I love that sound, and am
curious how, and with what sort of instrument, he achieved it.
I know it's a chromatic button accordion; from the photos, it looks as
if it has four rows (but that photo is pretty small).
I see there are lots of discussions of "tunings" on this newsgroup.

From the album liner notes and the sound, I infer that Privat used a

"dry" tuning; am I correct in that, or completely misguided?
1. Who made the accordion Jo Privat played, and does anyone now make a
comparable instrument?
2. To get that sound, will I have to buy a French-built instrument, or
will Italian or German instruments do? (or is it possible there's a
comparable maker in Quebec?)
3. What are the technical specs for Privat's instrument (number of
rows, buttons, basses, etc.)?
4. What was the Privat tuning?
5. What are the best entry level chromatic button accordions for a
person who wants to purchase a new instrument?
6. In terms of used instruments, I've read the online buying guide at
www.hmtrad.com; are there other sites I should consult?
I hope I'm not unnecessarily duplicating a recent discussion; if so, I
thank you for your patience with a tyro.

[k***@home.com]

Marty, I have a Cavagnolo Orchestre 5 3x3 built in 1989 excellent condition
if you are interested.
Long time fan of Privat with many of his recordings and compositions. The
grand old man of jazz manouche. My ears tell me that he's used different
instruments over the years and certainly moves back and forth between wet
and dry tuning.

To the other thread contributors: I've been told that F-C are farming their
work out to Italian factories. Any one know if this is factual?

Bill